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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; .30Carbine; Kitty Mittens; Kolokotronis; marron; Quix; T'wit
Thank you A-G for a lovely and detailed answer.

.30Carbine gave the answer beautifully in her first quote from Scripture [why Jesus need to be led by the Spirit into the wilderness]: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin." – Hebrews 4:15

We cannot separate Christ's human nature from His divine nature. They are inseparable and always in perfect harmony. Implying that He needed a spiritual Guide is saying that His divine nature was insufficient or absent.

And again, I strongly agree with .30Carbine that the Orthodox are missing a blessing since, as you say, Revelation is “never quoted or read in the Divine Liturgy.”: "Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand." – Rev 1:3

For the time is at hand...in speed, soon (Rev 1:1) the End-of-Times were preached and never came. Perhaps the Orthodox Church figured it's best to leave it alone.

On your other point about Satan and the teaching under Judaism v. Christianity: God does not change. Man does. Therefore, I assert that the change in man’s understanding of Satan is due to man’s philosophy or reasoning which he wrongfully superimposes on God’s revelations. For instance, there has been a tendency among some Christians to believe that Satan is such a being that they can command him, accuse him and such...[my emphases)...Of course we can resist the devil – and truly as long as we abide in Christ and He in us, we have no reason to fear the devil.

Now you are preaching my "gospel," AG. The perceptions have changed drastically from the OT to the NT and beyond. I agree,God doesn't change; we do.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

Yes, because the devil has no authority unless we give it to him. Once we realize this, he leaves the way he left Christ in the desert. He will wait for an opportune moment of weakness. So, evil is always luriking. Just as the Orthodox fathers tell us.

But the Lord also says: "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." [Mat 5:39] Why? Because we cannot right a wrong with another wrong. We cannot render evil for evil. God never does it, why should we? Giving in to evil is evil.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

That's lovely, but +Paul forgot to say "we can."

Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee... – Eze 28:15-19

This is not about Satan (altough it deceptively sounds like it is!). Christians have twisted the meaning to fit their paradigm. This is directed a Phoenician entity. There is no Satan to be found by name or otherwise in those verses.

In this case, Peter has become the tempter – the one appealing to Jesus’ pride (vanity or ego) that he should not be killed and resurrected. Interestingly this occurs just after Peter was honored for becoming the first to receive the divine revelation from the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Christianity does not see Satan as just a tempter, but as the fallen angel, which Judaism rejects [Jewish reasoning: angles cannot rebel against God]

Bottom line drawn from divine revelation alone (without doctrines or traditions of men): love God absolutely (Matt 22, the Great Commandment paraphrased) far and away above the second commandment of Matt 22, love of neighbor and - most especially, love of self. And be ever watchful for pride, vanity and ego creeping into the mind or soul – they are devilish and poison the spirit. Resisting them is closing the devil's "niche" (as betty boop calls it) to tempt us - he (and they) will flee if resisted.

Bottom line is, as Luther said, that we will continue sinning whether we want it or not. He said something of this kind: don't worry, as long as you love God, He will cleanse you, so sin boldly and trust in God. But we don't see it that way. The Bible tells us to repent, not to sin boldly and believe.

13,250 posted on 04/21/2007 6:01:13 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: betty boop; hosepipe; .30Carbine; Kitty Mittens; Kolokotronis; marron; Quix; T'wit
Thank you so much for sharing your insights!

The leaning I have in the spirit concerning Eze 28:15-19 is that it is indeed speaking of Satan. Whether it also has some meaning concerning a Phoenician entity makes no difference – many such things have more than one meaning, even the Hebrew word satan itself has two meanings. Also, Luther’s doctrine about sin is irrelevant to me because I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men across the board.

We cannot separate Christ's human nature from His divine nature. They are inseparable and always in perfect harmony. Implying that He needed a spiritual Guide is saying that His divine nature was insufficient or absent.

Conversely, I assert that such reasoning should not be applied to God lest we anthropomorphize Him. The simple Truth is that the Spirit led Christ into the wilderness to be tempted and Hebrews 4:15 tells us why:

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. – Matt 4:1

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. – Hebrews 4:15

Oh, and concerning Satan’s knowing Who he was tempting, I was led today to Mark 1 which has two instances of demons/devils being quieted because they recognized Jesus.

And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. - Mark 1:12-13

Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. – Mark 1:24-25

And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him. – Mark 1:34


13,265 posted on 04/21/2007 10:41:47 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; .30Carbine; Kitty Mittens; marron; Quix
"Christianity does not see Satan as just a tempter, but as the fallen angel, which Judaism rejects [Jewish reasoning: angles cannot rebel against God"

"The evil one possesses not evil but life as his essence, and hence he lives immortally. Yet his essence was capable of admitting evil since he was honored with free will. Had he voluntarily accepted a subordinate status and cleaved to the everflowing Well-spring of goodness he would have partaken of true life. But since he deliberately gave himself over to evil, he was deprived of true life and was justly expelled from it, having himself abandoned it in the first place. Thus he became a dead spirit, not in essence - since death lacks substantial reality - but through his rejection of true life. Yet unsated in his pursuit of evil and adding more and more to his wretchedness, he made himself into a death-generating spirit, eagerly drawing man into communion with his own state of death." +Gregory Palamas

13,267 posted on 04/22/2007 4:55:03 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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