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To: kosta50; betty boop; hosepipe; .30Carbine; Kitty Mittens; Kolokotronis; marron; Quix; T'wit
Thank you so much for sharing your wonderful insights, dear kosta50!

But I am going to dispute one thing, just a bit. James 1:13 says that it is impossible (a futile effort) to tempt God with evil. IOW, not that it hasn't been tried, but God is good and not evil - which is to say, evil has no "currency" with Him.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: - James 1:13

It was tried here:

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. – Matt 4:1

You said "So, if satan thought he could tempt Christ, he did not believe He is God." but here Satan knows he is speaking to God:

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. - Job 1:9-12

Here they tempted God with their unbelief and brought His wrath down on themselves:

Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, [and] as [in] the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with [this] generation, and said, It [is] a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. – Psalms 95:8-11 (also Hebrews 3)

On your comment below the line:

Àpropos the Gospel accounts in Mat 4, and Luk 4, both say that Jesus, following His baptism, was lead in the desert by the Holy Spirit which descended on Him at His baptism in the River Jordan. This is somewhat troubling to me, for it implies that Christ was without the Spirit until such time and that, being one of the Hypostases of the Godead He would not need divine guidance.

Otherwise, there would be no need to mention that the HS descended on Christ at baptism.

In the Gospel of John, Christ also makes it clear that the Comforter or Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost cannot come until He has ascended to the Father.

If one tries to apply logic to God - more specifically Aristotle's Law of Identity ("Everything that exists has a specific nature") - he immediately detects a problem here.

But such laws do not apply to God. Indeed, to apply mortal logic to God is to anthropomorphize Him.

Moreover, concerning the Law of Identity, the Holy Spirit is multi-faceted:

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. - Rev 4:5

There is no conflict.

13,182 posted on 04/20/2007 10:51:42 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
[... James 1:13 says that it is impossible to tempt God with evil. ..]

Amazing that some think God can be a moron..
The one that can ride the event horizon of a black hole like an amusement ride..
And chuck planets into it like skipping a rock on a lake..
A moron... amazing..

13,191 posted on 04/20/2007 11:54:35 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; .30Carbine; Kitty Mittens; Kolokotronis; marron; Quix; T'wit
As always, thank you much on your "musings" (as you call them.

You said "So, if satan thought he could tempt Christ, he did not believe He is God." but here Satan knows he is speaking to God: Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?...

In the Book of Job, the satan is one of the "sons of God" (angels), which is quite consistent with Judaism's view of [the] satan (the accuser) as being a faithful servant of God.

The story changes in the New Testament. The book of Job is considered one of the oldest books of the OT and predates the Babylonian captivity. With the emergence of messianic and apocalyptic Judaism in the 2nd century BC, the nature of the satan begins to change into the familiar one we have: a fallen angel of God, devil himself (hence the proper name Satan).

Prior to the Persian influence, Judaism doesn't know dualism and therefore there is no "devil" per se; the satan remains a faithful servant of God, His "prosecuting attorney."

Even if we take the liberty of making the God of Job into Logos, the relationship between Him and the satan is that of cooperation and and adversity.

Moreover, concerning the Law of Identity, the Holy Spirit is multi-faceted: And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. - Rev 4:5

Yeah, Seven Spirit of God; I would really like to hear how the Church addresses this. The Orthodox Church simply will not deal with Revelation. It's the only book of the NT that was listed as "questionable" past the 9th century and the only book of the NT that is never quoted or read in the Divine Liturgy.


On another subject: Can you tell me why did Jesus need to be led by the Spirit into the wilderness?

13,194 posted on 04/21/2007 1:16:39 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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