[Forest Keeper]

She believed before she understood; this is the model for all believers. Belief is what we do, not what we think.

You describe a blind faith, and true faith is not blind. We both know that all manner of the eventual damned DO all kinds of "good" things. Do they get credit in God's eyes for these? How can one believe without basic understanding? That doesn't make sense to me. Mary acknowledged God at the Annunciation, but she did NOT acknowledge Jesus as God early on. She had "faith", but it was not yet in Christ. And that's no slight to her, BTW. God delivers faith to His chosen at the time He appoints. Remember, during Jesus' ministry the gentile centurion had greater faith than Mary:

Matt 8:10 : When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

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FK: "How can you assume Mary was asking for a miracle?"

Unless you assume that Jesus traveled with a wine supply, she was. Supermarkets on every corner were not invented yet.

Jesus was being asked to solve a problem. Now, was the only possible way to solve it by miracle? I don't think so. This was wine-making country. I can't believe this was the first time that wine ran out at a wedding. What would a normal solution be? Find a neighbor, and go get his stash. I think this "could" have been handled by conventional means.

Here is an episode where Mary is an important participant, and that leads to the formation of the Church.

Mary's role here leads to the formation of the Church? What in the world is the connection? I'm sure at some time Joseph asked Jesus to help him make a table. Did that lead to the formation of the Church too? Even if you say that Mary was asking for a miracle, so did tons of people throughout His ministry. Do they get this credit also?

I mean, you turn a blind eye to aspects of the scripture your pastors tell you to be blind to. Faulty mariology is faulty Christology.

This sounds like you believe that correct mariology is a part of central and core Christianity. Is that true? If so, is there any other human upon which we must have a correct understanding to understand God? You must understand that this is another in a long line of mixed signals that we Protestants get when you say that Mary is not worshiped, yet God cannot be understood without the correct view of her. If I thought that I had to understand Mary before I could understand God, then I would ABSOLUTELY worship her. I would have to go through her to get to God. There are some who believe that position is already taken. :)

[annalex]

You describe a blind faith, and true faith is not blind

Nor was Mary's faith blind, as she asked questions. Her faith was perfect for the revelation given her, and at the time it was quite limited. Note however that she is never shown as vain or infirm in her faith, and the apostles are shown in that way.

Remember, during Jesus' ministry the gentile centurion had greater faith than Mary

It is not shown as greater than Mary's faith. When she is not sure what child Jesus meant by His father's house, all she knows is a child to whom a great promise is attached. The centurion on the other hand sees a man working miracles. To compare the two, you need to look at Cana, where Mary is asking for a miracle even thpugh Jesus had not worked any at that time.

was the only possible way to solve it by miracle? I don't think so.

Maybe not, but it was certainly not a trivial problem. People made wine for themselves; they also depended on it in arid climate, as stored water goes bad. To ask a neighbor would mean that he would have to do without for a year, and it certainly would be an embarassment. However, I agree that the miracle seems to serve no important end, compared with healings, etc. Let us not forget that there were other miracles that were likewise not designed to solve a life and death problem. Why did Jesus walk on water? Why did He hide himself at Emmaus and only revealed himself in the breaking of the bread? Why did He feed five thousand when the apostles offered an everyday solution, to dismiss the crowd in time for them to get food by ordinary means? All these "unnecessary" miracles served a pedagogical purpose. Miracle at Cana signaled the beginning of His ministry, and shows us the connection of Mary with His Church.

if you say that Mary was asking for a miracle, so did tons of people throughout His ministry. Do they get this credit also?

Mary's unique connection was that the ministry of Christ started with her meek request: "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee; and manifested his glory, and his disciples believed in him." (Jn 2:11), and it lead to the disciples believing. If you recall that she was also left adopting Christ's beloved disciple at the foot of the Cross, you see how His ministry on earth begins and ends with two themes: Mary and the Church.

This sounds like you believe that correct mariology is a part of central and core Christianity

I don't know how you define "core". I do think that the desire to minimize the role of Mary leaves the Protestants with an incomplete picture of Christ. For several reasons:

• Mary is indispensable in understanding the Incarnation of the Word. The frequency of nestorian error popping up among the Protestant is a direct result of their fear of the implication of the Mother of God title.
• Mary has a mystical connection to the Church. I suspect that the separation of the Word from the person of Christ and seeing the scripture rather than Mary/Church as the connection to Christ is essentially a mariological error.
• Mary and her spiritual children are against whom the calumnies of the Dragon are directed in Apocalypse 12. The ease with which Protestant groupings splinter and fracture betray an unconcern for unity, while Mary is the basis of such unity.
• Mary gives us a model of discipleship different from the apostles. She is not shown converting anyone and left no scripture. But she is one who has no vanity and never betrays Him. She is, nevertheless, given us not only as a mother but also as a perfect disciple: "Blessed are these who keep and follow the Word of God"
• Mary is also a eucharistic figure as she has a physical connection with the Son, with Whose flesh she is one. The physicality of the Parousia finds its first expression in Mary, and persists through the Eucharist. Allowing to blend Mary into the background of disciples, form which Protestantism suffers also puts the Eucharist into the background, as a slightly odd memorial snack to commemorate the Last Supper.