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To: kosta50; Quester; kawaii; hosepipe; betty boop; Quix; marron; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
Thank you so much for your reply and insights!

Indeed, Enoch was not included in the various canons even though it was cherished by Jews and Christians alike back in the day. Evidently it was the theme of angels and demons that led Filastrius to condemn it as heresy and Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai to pronounce a curse on anyone who believed it.

OTOH, Athenagoras thought Enoch was a true prophet – and many other church fathers supported Enoch: Tatian, Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen and Lactantius to name a few

Protestants reject the books of the Apocrypha and the Catechises, Catholics accept those but reject the books of the Pseudegraphra and I would imagine, the Talmud which of course the Jews accept while rejecting others. Meanwhile the Protestants and the Catholics and the Jews all accept the Torah and the Prophets.

But each has a different “official” doctrine or explanation based largely upon what is allowed in the "toolset."

Meanwhile, I’m over here – footloose and fancy-free – exploring wherever I am compelled to look. My prayer is to know everything God wants me to know, but no more.

One of the advantages of eschewing the doctrines and traditions of mortal men is that I follow wherever the Spirit leads, without guilt or shame. So if I am drawn to the Pseudepigrapha (including Enoch) - I read it – ditto for the Talmud, Catechises, Jewish Kabbalah, science or whatever.

But I take nothing as Truth unless the Spirit personally authenticates it to me.

As if to underscore the importance of the canon, He faithfully authenticates all of the books of Scripture. And yet He sets off an alarm within me when something is lost – such as God’s name, The Rock from the Song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32 – or added, such as the word “most” to an erroneous quote from the NASB translation of Luke 1:42 in reference to Mary but not Jesus.

So I trust God, I believe Him, I count on Him – not men.

A central leaning He has given me is that God the Father has indeed revealed Himself in four ways: through His only begotten son Jesus Christ, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, through the Scriptures and through His Creation.

All of His revelations agree – thus I rejoice that the ancient Jewish Kabbalah’s understanding of creation ended up being “spot on” with cosmology since the 1960's. Before that, the science community would have dismissed their insights with a brisk wave of the hand.

Not surprising though, after all, the Jews have been at it for millennia. LOL!

I do however very strongly agree with you that Christians should stay away from any thing or any where except as the Spirit leads – because exploring such things of one’s own will can lead to grievous, spiritual error - e.g. new age philosophy.

Oh, and the underscoring by the Holy Spirit (which is always confirmed in Scripture) for the book of Enoch is in the original Greek of Luke 9:35 (emphasis mine.)

And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

kai fwnh egeneto ek ths nefelhs legousa outos estin o uios mou o eklelegmenos autou akouete

"The Elect One" is a Name for Jesus Christ in Enoch. The King James Above translated it to "beloved Son."

Other translations:

A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him. - NIV

Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, {My} Chosen One; listen to Him!" - NASB

BTW, the best and most recent and most scholarly translations of Enoch are not available on the internet. Anyone interested in reading it should look for Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha.

Ditto on the caution for anyone researching the Kabbalah. Most of what is on the net is new age mysticism - go to the Jewish sites, e.g. AISH, to avoid the perversions.

12,908 posted on 04/17/2007 9:18:17 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quester; kawaii; hosepipe; betty boop; Quix; marron; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
But I take nothing as Truth unless the Spirit personally authenticates it to me

Well, this is the ultimate in mysticism. Saying that what I do or think or conclude is the work of the Spirit is, in effect, a claim to divine revelation, and I don't buy it.

12,943 posted on 04/17/2007 8:14:09 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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