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To: Forest Keeper
Yes, we are talking about a man who SAYS he has faith. That faith may be true or it may not. One strong evidence of true faith is works. And, all those with true faith WILL produce works. A man who says he has faith, but then does no works, bears false fruit and therefore has a false faith. It does not save him.

This is all true, but note that James never says what a man is saved from!

A 'dead' faith cannot save one from physical death as stated in Jn.15:2, God will remove those not producing fruit.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

Moreover, one can have a 'dead faith' and still be saved as shown by 2Tim.2:13, 'if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself', indicating a believer who has lost his faith, yet remains saved.

Sometimes being 'saved' refers to physical life when Peter cried to the Lord to save him from drowning in Matthew 14:30 when he walked on water.

Rehab showed her faith by her actions and it saved her and her family from death.

12,892 posted on 04/17/2007 3:01:05 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
A 'dead' faith cannot save one from physical death as stated in Jn.15:2, God will remove those not producing fruit.

I'm not sure that I read the verse quite that way. :

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. KJV

Now, the NIV, which I normally quote, says "cuts off" rather than "taketh away". That makes this a little more difficult for me. Nevertheless, I have taken either phrase to mean general discipline by God, or possibly death, as you see it. The problem I have with the death option is how to reconcile it with (POTS) verses like Phil. 1:6. He carries the good work on to completion. The death option appears to imply that man can thwart that good work begun. I don't think I can buy that because it would seem to destroy POTS. However, there is logic in your reading since "pruning" is specifically and separately mentioned. Frankly, I'm not sure what the best explanation of this verse is. :)

Moreover, one can have a 'dead faith' and still be saved as shown by 2Tim.2:13, 'if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself', indicating a believer who has lost his faith, yet remains saved.

"Dead faith" is probably too strong for me. :) To me a dead faith is a false faith, is no faith. I don't think we can completely lose a once held true faith. We can wander or suffer, but I don't think the scriptures teach that we can totally abandon the gift of God. We are, after all, a new creation. We are permanently changed, for all time.

13,434 posted on 04/24/2007 5:05:56 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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