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To: annalex

Annalex, you just ignorred all of the Scripture which says that we have been given the Holy Spirit as believers. He is our comforter. He is our teacher. The Bible says that the lost can not understand the ways of God because they are spiritually discerned. What do you think that means? The Holy Spirit lives inside of every believer.

I've already said what I think the keys to the Kingdom mean. They are the power to bind and loose. Sometimes that is legislative (as in church discipline), sometimes it is personal (as in forgiveness). Sometimes it is even spiritual (as in binding of Spirits). What it is NOT is the power for an individual to make proclamations regarding salvation.

Salvation is through God alone. It happens one way. Not through church membership. Not through baptism. Not through Eucharist. Not through church attendance or tithing. None of those things. Salvation is through Christ alone. Through faith alone. Exclusive of works - though it will show works as evidence that it has happened.

For by GRACE you are saved through FAITH - and that not of YOURSELVES - it is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast.

Catholicism has redefined grace to mean something other than God's unmerited favor. Grace is more of a power that one receives when one does the right things. If you take the Eucharist, you get a special grace. If you are baptised as an infant, you get a special grace. If you say 20 hail Mary's, grace is conferred. This is simply not Scriptural.

Before God, all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. There is not a single solitary thing we can do that meets God's standards. Even our "good" deeds fall short.

As sinners, each and every one of us deserve one thing. HELL. If one doesn't understand that, then one doesn't understand the depth of the holiness of God. He is purest pure. Not one speck of any evil can be tolerated in His presence for He is just. And nothing we could ever do on our own would ever satisfy that justice because it all falls short.

But one thing didn't fall short. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to take our punishment and to justify us before Him. Justification means "Just as if I'd never sinned" in the old Sunday School definition of the word. Through Christ and Christ alone we can stand boldly before the Father and ask whatever we will. We can stand boldly because in His eyes, we are just as if we'd never sinned. And that is irrevocable. Jesus paid our price once and for all time. When we believe (which itself is a gift from God), we are saved. If we screw up, we don't have to "do" something special to make sure we are saved again. We are saved already.

Relationally, we have hampered our fellowship with God. But, once we are born again, we can not be "unborn" again. Otherwise, there is no more payment for our sins - and Christ's sacrifice wasn't good enough to get us saved.

Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall ANY MAN (including Popes, prophets, priests, kings, or self) pluck them out of My hand." The Greek on never is emphatic. It carries with it the meaning of Never, not at all, by any means, in any way, ever ever ever perish.

He said that all that the Father gives to Him will come to Him and of those that come to Him, He will lose nothing.

It all stems from that God-given faith - and that alone.

Read again, John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him will not perish but have eternal life. For God sent His Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved... He that BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED. But He that BELIEVES NOT is condemned already because he has NOT believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God.

No fallible human being has any power over matters of salvation - and that includes the Apostle Peter. He would be appalled at how he has been used to gain power in the name of religion.

Jesus praised Peter for his acknowledgement that Jesus Himself is the Messiah. What the Catholic church has done, however, is shifted focus from the key truth of that passage - the "Jesus is the Messiah and Peter got it" to "Jesus set up a hierarchical structure of a church founded on Peter. The so-called apostolic succession focuses on the beginnings with Peter. The Papacy rests on the simply unproven assertion that Peter was the first Pope and that such an office was established by Christ.

The early church did NOT recognize a central authority or Pope. They gathered together to discuss and nail down certain doctrines and solve controversies, but as to a central authority that they all embraced- it didn't exist.

Rome did not become supreme until centuries later. ANd its claim was so weak that it had to be bolstered by a forged document (The Donation of Constantine).

Annalex, you seem like a genuinely pious (not in a bad sense) person. You love Your church. And You love the God it presents. But, Your church has lied to You and You are at a loss for it. It binds You to itself by its rules and doctrines that place salvation within the jurisdiction of an institution. We Protestants were once fully condemned and anathematized by the Popes. Now-a-days, we are "separated Brothers" who may have to spend a little more time in purgatory, but we're really okay.

I'm sorry, but no man can decide our salvation, lack thereof. Only God Himself can do such a thing.

Annalex, the Holy Spirit is available to everyone who believes. Do NOT blow past the verses I gave you. They are not ME speaking. They are God Himself. He is using His Word to tell you that you do not need to worry about what a man or a church authority tells you, but that your life and salvation are in His hands. All it takes is a simple child-like faith in Him as Lord of Your life (not a vague sort of belief that God exists, but He is truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God and Lord), and you are then declared justified forever. NOT BECAUSE OF YOU. Because you can boast in yourself then. But because of Christ Himself.

With that, the focus is on the right person - the person of Christ Himself. And through a RELATIONSHIP with HIM, one finally begins to understand the meaning of the words WHOM THE SON SETS FREE, [HE] IS FREE INDEED.

Freegards,
Blogger


1,277 posted on 12/13/2006 5:34:06 AM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
you just ignorred all of the Scripture which says that we have been given the Holy Spirit as believers

No I did not. We are indeed given the Holy Ghost at the sacrament of confirmation (chrysmation to the Orthodox).

I've already said what I think the keys to the Kingdom mean. They are the power to bind and loose

You think that, I know, but it is not what the scripture says.

Salvation is through God alone. It happens one way. Not through church membership. Not through baptism. Not through Eucharist. Not through church attendance or tithing. None of those things. Salvation is through Christ alone. Through faith alone. Exclusive of works - though it will show works as evidence that it has happened.

Salvation is from Christ alone, yes. The rest of what you said is not supported by the scripture, not taught by the Church and is a Protestant extrascriptural fantasy. For example, Eph 2:8 which you cite goes on to say that we should walk in good works prepared for us by God, and when it says that we are not saved of works, it qualified that these are works done for boast or reward. This is consistent throughout Pauline epistles: that work of obligation, or work done for reward, do not save, but that work of charity is necessary for salvation. After all, James 2:24 says it plainly: "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?". If you twist that into some faith-alone knot, you are following traditions of Luther, and not the scripture.

Regarding security of salvation, you are reading into the scripture what is not in it. John 10 does speak of it. But it does not say that a sinner cannot cast himself out of the hand of God. Nor does it say that the Church may not determine what sin is. In other scripture we read that men do lose their faith and the Church does condemn them to hell (1 Tim 1:19-20, and again Mt 18:17)

Rome did not become supreme until centuries later

I gave you an example of Pope Clement, 2c. dealing authoritatively with the Corinthians. Yes, the power of the papacy grew gradually in response to the Church's need. Turn away form Protestant heresies, and that power will be relaxed.

Your church has lied to You

I can tell you who lied. Luther lied. He invented his stupid theology out of his masturbation habit. He proceeded to spit vomit against the Church of Christ. He mutilated the scripture to fit his error, desecrated churches and monasteries and started 30 thousand para-christian sects. Don't you dare tell me calumnies against my Church. You Protestant background denies you standing.

1,319 posted on 12/13/2006 8:32:39 AM PST by annalex
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