[Kolokotronis]

"I'll confess I don't know many Greeks but those that I have met were very likable chaps."

Well, you've been fooled. As I said before, we really aren't nice people. That's why we were the first Gentiles the Faith was preached to.

"Please don't tell me that just because you're Greek you know the thought process of every Greek."

That isn't what I said, HD.

"The Orthodox and Catholics base their beliefs on the Canons and the Magisterium. They are guided by the Holy Spirit and are free, where reasonable, to evolve their theology discarding old beliefs and establishing new ones after careful deliberations."

We base our dogmas on what the canons say. I can't speak to the Magisterium of the Latin Church. Dogmas can be refined by a council; they cannot be discarded. In establishing dogmas, The Church determines what The Church always and everywhere has believed. In this process, the consensus patrum is particularly important, as are our liturgics, since they are ancient expressions of that very thing.

"What you find offensive is that we would question the perpetual virginity of Mary apart from the traditions of the Church."

HD, you know I don't find Protestant beliefs offensive. I find them interesting, and many times instructive (remember the Semi-Pelagian stuff) though they have virtually no religious meaning for me. I do find unending Protestant attacks on Marian theology offensive and I find most of the methods used to question that theology disingenuous. Your beliefs, however, are just that, your beliefs. They take nothing away from my faith.

"But, frankly, it probably would be a non-issue with us Protestants except for the excessiveness in which Mary is worshiped today. It seems your beef is really with the Catholics."

Well, I guess I needn't say that it is not Catholic doctrine or dogma that the Theotokos be worshipped. But they do have their loons who come perilously close to that. Usually they are the first to admit it. Those people are heretics in my opinion. If you focused your concern on them, I don't think you'd get much argument from the Catholics. But you see, it appears your reaction is another one of those "throw the baby out with the bath water" things.

[HarleyD]

Well, I reread the post again and I still come away with the same impressions. However, I do know you're a wonderful person to discuss things with Kolo and I believe you truly weigh the facts and simply have a difference of opinion which I respect. The only conclusion I can come to is that I must be misreading your post. The problem with a discussion of Mary is that Protestants often come across as harsh on her. Nothing could be further from the truth. I believe we have the greatest admiration of her since we would all agree she was an example of submission to God's calling and obedient to His will regardless of the possible consequences. (She could have been stoned.)

Whether Mary was a perpetual virgin or not is really a very minor point IMO. If I were to declare tomorrow that I thought Mary was a perpetual virgin it wouldn't change any of my other beliefs.

Personally I think the emphasis on Mary is a BIG theology error.