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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; 1000 silverlings
To me it's a painful confession, but truth sometimes hurts. Mary is a saint, a model for all of us, but she is not divine. We cannot bow to her, prostrate to her, ask her to save us (directly).

She is not divine, true. We do not have to bow down or prostrate to her. We can, however, if we want to, and most do. Can we ask her to save us directly as if she were a savior? No, of course not, and we know that. When the Orthodox ask her to save us or the Catholic ask her to pray for us it is well understood that she is relaying our plea to Christ.

12,432 posted on 04/12/2007 2:01:53 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; 1000 silverlings
We do not have to bow down or prostrate to her. We can, however, if we want to, and most do

Personal expression of devotion is one thing. Liturgically, Mary does not "rate" the same honor as God. My specific example was concerning people in church performing metania by touching the ground at the mention "Remembering our Most Blessed..." and not when we sing "Come, let us bow and fall before Christ..."

The Orthodox Church doesn't have the uniformity we observe on the Latin Catholic side. This makes us more vulnerable to individual zealots who introduce something that is theologically incorrect, even inappropriate, and before you know it it becomes a routine as others copy them.

Orthodoxy also distinguishes little bows (a tad bit more than nods)from the neck in response to priest bowing to the congregation, incensing, blessing, Saints, and a deep (30-45%) bow from the waist (30 or more degrees) at the mention of the Holy Trinity.

Some Orthodox books do say "Theotokos save us" but this is an abbreviation (again by some zealot) of the "Theotokos, through your prayers to Christ, save us." Serbian Orthodox typikon (which is Mt. Athos monastic typikon) does not have an abbreviated version.

12,445 posted on 04/12/2007 3:27:58 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; Forest Keeper
When the Orthodox ask her to save us or the Catholic ask her to pray for us it is well understood that she is relaying our plea to Christ.

If that is true, then you must always end the prayer, in Christ's name. Even then technically, you are still committing idolatry.

12,534 posted on 04/13/2007 9:40:50 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings ("The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." Andrew Jackson, President of U.S.)
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