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To: kawaii
i’ve seen crossing yourself twice, bending to kiss an icon with you hand extended toward the floor, and then crossing yourself again

I do that only to the icon of Christ, and/or a cross with Christ on it, on the icons stand. I cannot see myself prostrating for a Saint.

i’ve seen bending over and kneeling on the floor and putting your head to the floor, but never for mentions of mary, in fact i’ve only seen it once and that was at my parish in the past few weeks

That is something we do during Great Lent (the Sunday of the Cross and the Holy Thursday/Friday vespers when Christ is laid on a table and symbolically buried. There is usually the NT and a cross on top of Him, and we kiss His feet, the cross and the NT after we do the full prostration, which is some Orthodox do as the Muslims do which is incorrect). This is worship of Christ, not of any Saints.

The only time when crossing is "regulated" is when the Holy Trinity is invoked. At other times, the Orthodox cross the way the Protestants say "Praise the Lord!" or "Amen!" or when there is a strong emotional charge (as in the Divine Liturgy when the priest says petitions to care for our sick and for the wellbeing of the souls of our departed ones).

Some communities cross a lot more than others. Thus, Serbs tend to cross when incensed, or when the priest says "peace with you" etc.

When entering and leaving the church, crossing is a sign of reverence.

Kneeling is allowed on all days except between Paschal Sunday and the Pentecost (about 40 days) and on Sundays (by the decision of the First Ecumenical Council). At other times, kneeling is optional.

On the Pentecost Sunday, kneeling is part of the service, but one is never wrong standing on a Sunday (day of Resurrection; resurrected man is not sitting or kneeling the rationale goes).

12,390 posted on 04/11/2007 8:55:37 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
I do that only to the icon of Christ, and/or a cross with Christ on it, on the icons stand. I cannot see myself prostrating for a Saint.

it was an icon of christ... sorry to not have clarified
12,394 posted on 04/11/2007 9:01:22 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50
I do that only to the icon of Christ, and/or a cross with Christ on it, on the icons stand. I cannot see myself prostrating for a Saint.

er mixed up but anyway see latter
12,395 posted on 04/11/2007 9:01:52 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50
That is something we do during Great Lent (the Sunday of the Cross and the Holy Thursday/Friday vespers when Christ is laid on a table and symbolically buried. There is usually the NT and a cross on top of Him, and we kiss His feet, the cross and the NT after we do the full prostration, which is some Orthodox do as the Muslims do which is incorrect). This is worship of Christ, not of any Saints.

same here
12,397 posted on 04/11/2007 9:02:37 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50
The only time when crossing is "regulated" is when the Holy Trinity is invoked. At other times, the Orthodox cross the way the Protestants say "Praise the Lord!" or "Amen!" or when there is a strong emotional charge (as in the Divine Liturgy when the priest says petitions to care for our sick and for the wellbeing of the souls of our departed ones).

i cross when i here the trinity or any member or feel inspired (so pretty much yeah)
12,398 posted on 04/11/2007 9:03:28 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50
Some communities cross a lot more than others. Thus, Serbs tend to cross when incensed, or when the priest says "peace with you" etc. When entering and leaving the church, crossing is a sign of reverence. Kneeling is allowed on all days except between Paschal Sunday and the Pentecost (about 40 days) and on Sundays (by the decision of the First Ecumenical Council). At other times, kneeling is optional. On the Pentecost Sunday, kneeling is part of the service, but one is never wrong standing on a Sunday (day of Resurrection; resurrected man is not sitting or kneeling the rationale goes).

true to the point it should be on a pamphlet before folks enter. ;p
12,400 posted on 04/11/2007 9:04:50 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50
I do that only to the icon of Christ, and/or a cross with Christ on it, on the icons stand. I cannot see myself prostrating for a Saint.

Back to this. we do this with icons in general (okay very dedicated folks do the hand lowering, but it's not a big difference from just kissing the icon, i generally don't mostly because i'm confused enough trying to remember which part of the icon you kiss depending on whether it's a full representation, head, multiple saints, scenes, etc.).

I would NOT call this a full prostration. Even with the hand. I would say (again personal thoughts) that it's not a prostration unless your head toches the floor.

I don't base my interpreation on orthodox wiki however their definition fits with what I call prostrating and why I was shocked that folks might only prostrate when mary is mentioned.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Worship#Prostration
12,404 posted on 04/11/2007 9:09:40 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50; kawaii
At other times, the Orthodox cross the way the Protestants say "Praise the Lord!" or "Amen!" ...

I didn't know that. So it's perfectly normal for an Orthodoxer to cross at any time upon hearing something especially meaningful to him, and when others do not cross? I've only been to a couple of Catholic Masses in my life and I didn't notice that. All the crossing I remember observing was in unison, once everyone was seated. (But, that could be wrong :)

13,056 posted on 04/19/2007 3:26:24 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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