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To: kawaii; Forest Keeper
Kosta: The people in my church who prostrate for the Theotokos (because they feel they "need" to give her a more than 'cursory' [?] sign of the cross) do not prostrate when the Holy Trinity is invoked. Apparently they feel the Theotokos 'deserves' more than the Holy Trinity! It's absurd! It's blasphemous, and idolatrous!

Kawaii: I'm curious Kosta. Is this when venerating icons, or just during liturgy? Which type of prostration are we talking about?

During the Divine Liturgy, involving the "waist" metania: bending at the waist (some people have to bend their knees) with the right hand open, palm facing forward, head facing forward.

A couple who always stand at the very front of the church started this practice recently. Since they are very involved in the church, others are now beginning to copy them.

The metania is made every time the priest says "Remembering our Theotokos..." but when glory is sung to the Lord, either trinitarian or individually (for instance in Trisagion) they will merely cross once or not at all.

When the choir sings "Let us fall before Christ..." they do nothing, or when the choir sings "We bow to you..." they do nothing.

I asked the lady why she and her husband started this and if there was some kind of typikon that talks about it, and she told me it was "personal devotion." Apparently, she was venerating the icon of the Theotokos at home one day and it brought "tears to her eyes." Since then she feels that she has to show 'greater reverence' to the Theotkos.

I didn't feel like polemicizing with her (as we are otherwise good friends, and she and her husband have only the purest motives in mind and probably don't — although they should — realize that this is wrong), but I will bring this up with the priest. He is fairly young, and this is his first parish.

He is still figuring out ways to do things and reach the people, making sure no one suffers spiritually first and foremost, but I am sure eventually he will organize some sort of FAQ forum where such issues will be addressed. As I said, trouble is that the priest is facing the altar when this happens so he would not notice that some half a dozen people no drop and touch the ground when Theokotoks' name is invoked.

12,379 posted on 04/11/2007 7:00:59 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

interesting. i’ve never seen this.

i’ve seen crossing yourself twice, bending to kiss an icon with you hand extended toward the floor, and then crossing yourself again.

i’ve seen bending over and kneeling on the floor and putting your head to the floor, but never for mentions of mary, in fact i’ve only seen it once and that was at my parish in the past few weeks. had nothing to do with mary though.

it’s all i can do to cross myself everytime any member of the trinity is mentioned, and i’ve never crossed myself at mentions of mary. (or seen anyone do so). i try to cross myself 3 times when the trinity is mentioned, and 3 times when entering the church (and as mentioned when venerating icons)


12,382 posted on 04/11/2007 7:40:20 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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