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To: HarleyD; kawaii; Forest Keeper; annalex; Kolokotronis; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg
Hmmmm....I had to look this one up. Actually "saints" is used 96 times throughout scripture a third of which is used in the Old Testament

They are not the same words in original languages. The OT (Hebrew) uses the word chaciyd which translates as faithful, kind (hardly a 'saint'). The Hebrew word for 'saint' is qadowsh (holy one).

The OT Greek version (LXX) uses όσιος (hosios) without blame, pious..

the New Testament uses exclusively the word άιγιος (haigios), or most holy

Clearly the Hebrews in the OT do not refer to all the faithful as "saints" (i.e. holy ones), whether in Hebrew or Greek. That is a Pauline innovation which the Church never accepted.

The Lutherans went one step farther and called themselves the divines!. Talk about narcissism.

12,369 posted on 04/11/2007 12:07:05 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; kawaii; Forest Keeper; annalex; Kolokotronis; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg
They are not the same words in original languages. The OT (Hebrew) uses the word chaciyd which translates as faithful, kind (hardly a 'saint'). The Hebrew word for 'saint' is qadowsh (holy one).

I don't have my Hebrew lexicon handy at the moment, so I'm not sure how often "chaciyd" versus "qadowsh" is used. However the term qadowsh (holy one) is used in a plural sense:

But it really becomes problematic doesn't it; whether you say "faithful" or "holy one"? Scripture clearly indicate that there are the faithful and God looks at them as "holy ones". Even in the Old Testament. The notion that this is Paulinean has no foundation in scripture much less that saints are people who are looked upon after they're dead.

What the Lutherans called them is immaterial. I'm not Lutheran.

12,372 posted on 04/11/2007 12:36:37 PM PDT by HarleyD
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