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To: jo kus; Frumanchu; xzins; blue-duncan
You changed the subject.

Where is your proof for the teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary? The scriptures clearly state that Joseph did not know Mary until after Jesus was born. If the scriptures intended to convey the idea that Joseph did not know Mary at all, the scriptures would have stopped when they stated that Joseph did not know Mary. It would have said Joseph did not know Mary (period) (end of sentence).

But the scriptures say that Joseph did knot know Mary until after the birth of Jesus. The clear and unmistakeable implication is that he did, in fact, know her after the birth of Jesus.

Now show me anywhere in the first 300 years of the written history of the church where this idiotic assumption that Joseph and Mary did not have an intimate relationship was taught as doctrine.

1,226 posted on 12/12/2006 1:27:00 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
If the scriptures intended to convey the idea that Joseph did not know Mary at all, the scriptures would have stopped when they stated that Joseph did not know Mary. It would have said Joseph did not know Mary (period) (end of sentence).

Another fallacy of the argument from silence.

-A8

1,227 posted on 12/12/2006 1:36:46 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: P-Marlowe
Now show me anywhere in the first 300 years of the written history of the church where this idiotic assumption that Joseph and Mary did not have an intimate relationship was taught as doctrine.

See here. It is a heresy called "Antidicomarianism" that grew out of Ebionism and was discussed by Tertullion circa 200 AD.

-A8

1,229 posted on 12/12/2006 1:41:41 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: P-Marlowe
Where is your proof for the teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary?

The teaching, as far as doctrinal, comes with the Church's understanding of Christ and Mary's role when Mary is called the Mother of God and Mary as the New Eve, both concepts clearly stated in the first 300 years of Christianity. Furthermore, with such men as St. Ambrose, Mary is called a type of the Church. The Church is ALSO our Mother (it is called this throughout history) in that it gives birth to us through being baptized (born again) and we are nourished and nutured by it (receiving the Word of God and the Sacraments). The Church more clearly defines this later on, culminating with Vatican 2. The Church sees that Mary is a type of the Church, and the Church is a virgin dedicating her life to her spouse, Jesus Christ.

Thus, what the Church sees in Mary is a reflection of Christ and the Church itself.

Regards

1,285 posted on 12/13/2006 6:06:30 AM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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