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To: annalex; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
FTD: "Mary gave birth to the Messiah and it was He who brought salvation to men."

Alex: "This is, of course, also true, this is why Mary is co-redeemer but not a redeemer."

Since Protestants have ZERO acceptance of Mary having anything to do with our redemption (beyond giving birth), I'm sure you can see how we have a very hard time with your statement, at least in these times. The common usage of "co-" connotes something/one necessary or important to accomplishing something. We have "co-workers" who are presumably needed. We also have the concept of "teammates".

In the professional world, and especially in theological debates, we often use the example of "co-pilot". Perhaps it is possible that the captain "could" fly the plane without help, but we assume against that. We assume that a "co-pilot" is NECESSARY for safe operation or else the airline wouldn't pay for the position. I know for a fact that many Protestants believe that the use of the term "co-redeemer" by the RCC indicates a belief that Mary is somehow necessary for salvation.

Is that true? If it is not true, then how would you advise the Pope to clear this up, and many similar great misunderstandings, along the same lines? Of course, this is tied to the generally admitted Catholic belief that Persons are necessary co-pilots to their own salvations. According to your beliefs, people must CO-operate with God in order to be permanently saved. The free will of the person is necessary. With the terms you give us, why should we think that Mary is any less neccessary to our salvation if she is a CO-redeemer?

The slight rebuke you detect in Jesus's voice is directed at those who might venerate Mary as purely a vessel, a breeding apparatus for God.

Really? Can you give an example of where Jesus rebukes someone for potentially venerating Mary improperly?

12,259 posted on 04/09/2007 6:40:31 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
The common usage of "co-" connotes something/one necessary or important to accomplishing something

It does not necessarily connote equality. Mary was indeed important in the Incarnation and in fact throughout Jesus's childhood, and that is her role in the Redemption.

this is tied to the generally admitted Catholic belief that Persons are necessary co-pilots to their own salvations.

Well put. We are co-pilots of our salvation indeed (Romans 2:6-10, James 2:15-26, 2 Peter 1:2-11). Mary is not distinct from us in that sense. She is, after all, our mother too (John 19:27).

Can you give an example of where Jesus rebukes someone for potentially venerating Mary improperly?

I just did in the post you are responding to.

27 ... a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. 28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11).

12,450 posted on 04/12/2007 4:06:43 PM PDT by annalex
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