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Paul elsewhere said that Jesus was sinless, but I don't see where he had room for any other exceptions. And, he was the first to include himself in with the rest of us. :)

Did he? Paul's authorship of Hebrews is doubtful. Did Paul mention this elsewhere?

I am going to go out on a limb and give you my opinion. I do not think that Paul knew everything about Christianity that we do today. It is very unlikely, for example, that Paul's theology regarding the Trinity was largely undeveloped and took the Church many years to understand what had been revealed to the Church. I will say the same regarding Paul's thought on Mary. It is unlikely that Paul had considered that Mary was the archtype for the Church - pure and spotless (as he writes in Ephesians). It is Paul who ALSO writes about the "New Adam". Naturally, he didn't appear to had plumbed the depths of discovery that Mary would have been the "New Eve". Thus, Paul DID set the ground work for the later connection between Mary and the Church.

What we DO know is that Christianity very soon after Paul DID realize that Mary was something more than in incubator for the Christ - which is how Protestants seem to "honor" Mary... This was a result of prayerful meditation of the Scriptures and the Apostolic teachings given to the successors of the Apostles.

Regards

It is unlikely that Paul had considered that Mary was the archtype for the Church - pure and spotless (as he writes in Ephesians)

+Paul and all others to be exact, starting with +Peter. Truth is: none of the Apostolic leaders of the Church regonized Mary as the arch-type of the Church, or as "Second Eve."

Some suggest that it was +Ignatius, as early as 90 AD, who mentions that Mary's virginity is one of the three secrets kept from the rulers of the world. However, even the Catholic Encyclopedia says:

"The two letters to the Apostle St. John and the one to the Blessed Virgin, which exist only in Latin, are unanimously admitted to be spurious."

They are actually 14^th century manuscreipts of Western origin extant on ly in Latin.

In the second century, the Church makes no pronouncements linking Mary to the arch-type of the Church.

We have to wait until the just about the 3rd century, when +Irenaeus links her to the "Second Eve."

And it took almost two centuries since then for the Church to proclaim that she is the Birth-Giver of God (Theotokos), and a Mother of God (Mater Theou).

FK: "Paul elsewhere said that Jesus was sinless, but I don't see where he had room for any other exceptions. And, he was the first to include himself in with the rest of us. :)"

Did he? Paul's authorship of Hebrews is doubtful. Did Paul mention this elsewhere?

Sure:

2 Cor 5:21 : God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

FWIW, Peter (1 Peter 2:21-22) and John (1 John 3:5) also confirm. But I know we were talking about Paul.

I am going to go out on a limb and give you my opinion. I do not think that Paul knew everything about Christianity that we do today.

Well, I would say that Paul didn't know everything that we THINK about Christianity today (including Protestants). However, if I did not have assurance and was offered a last-second chance to trade my faith for Paul's before facing Judgment, I would do it. :)

It is very unlikely, for example, that Paul's theology regarding the Trinity was largely undeveloped and took the Church many years to understand what had been revealed to the Church.

Does "unlikely" = "likely"? If so, then because the Trinity is such a core and basic concept for us, I can't believe Paul didn't essentially get it. For example, Paul mentions them as all being distinct:

2 Cor 13:14 : May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

While Paul obviously acknowledges the deity of the Father, he also does of the Son:

1 Tim 3:16 : And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV

And finally, we have this:

Isa 40:13-14 : 13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? KJV

Ps 139:7-8 : 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. (Spirit is omnipresent)

1 Cor 2:10-11 : 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Of course the OT quotes weren't from Paul, but he certainly knew of them and believed them. I understand that 1 Cor 2 COULD be used as evidence that he didn't fully get it, but I'm still convinced he understood the Trinity.

I will say the same regarding Paul's thought on Mary. It is unlikely that Paul had considered that Mary was the archtype for the Church - pure and spotless (as he writes in Ephesians). It is Paul who ALSO writes about the "New Adam". Naturally, he didn't appear to had plumbed the depths of discovery that Mary would have been the "New Eve".

I fully agree here.

I have a very hard time believing that there are men today who understand God better than Paul did. Paul's mentor was Jesus Himself, one on one. Who can top that? Did Jesus keep secrets from Paul, etc.? I doubt it. Besides you appear to be freely admitting here that the later Church ADDED to what even the Apostles taught and understood. OOPS! :) So much for "always and everywhere", not to mention the specific scriptural prohibition against this.

And, Protestants do not see Mary as only an incubator. We honor her for her great faith and devotion to God. It's just that we also honor others for the same thing. That only diminishes Mary if she truly was above all other humans. We don't think she was. In this theater, Christ mentions John the Baptist, not Mary.