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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus
But what does this mean about the other two Biblical assumptions? It would seem to put Elijah and Enoch on a par with Mary

I have no clue. Elijah actually didn't die. I think he is supposed to come back to die!

Another thing about bodily assumption: heaven and hell are not 'physical' places to be taken to. We think of hell as a "state" of the soul of a person who was unable to let go of anger and love for the world and other passions.

But that goes directly against the liturgical tradition of Orthodoxy where we sing "Thou [Christ] didst descent into hell." The Apostolic Creed also establishes that. Even the Gospel expression "the gates of hell" suggests a physical place.

All this sounds like some left-over paganism that no one bothered to correct. Where is heaven and where is hell, and where is God the Father and how can Christ sit to the tight of Him? These are some very visual descriptions of physical entities and yet the Church does not teach hell or heaven to be a "place."

12,187 posted on 04/02/2007 2:02:10 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper
All this sounds like some left-over paganism that no one bothered to correct. Where is heaven and where is hell, and where is God the Father and how can Christ sit to the tight of Him? These are some very visual descriptions of physical entities and yet the Church does not teach hell or heaven to be a "place."

It is not unusual that God's Word would use anthropomorphic words to help man understand something about God. God's Word condescends to mankind, stoops to him - even BEFORE the incarnation. It certainly doesn't seem to make much difference whether heaven is a place or a state of existence while we are on this side of the void...

Regards

12,190 posted on 04/02/2007 5:24:47 PM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus; Alamo-Girl
Another thing about bodily assumption: heaven and hell are not 'physical' places to be taken to. We think of hell as a "state" of the soul of a person who was unable to let go of anger and love for the world and other passions.

But that goes directly against the liturgical tradition of Orthodoxy where we sing "Thou [Christ] didst descent into hell." The Apostolic Creed also establishes that. Even the Gospel expression "the gates of hell" suggests a physical place.

That's interesting. I have always thought of heaven and hell as places, even if in a dimension not currently observable to us. I actually have no problem with that idea. It's just that I am sure that no matter what happens I am going to exist, and I've always thought of existence as requiring space. But before I dig myself into too deep a hole, perhaps we should consult the resident expert on such matters. :) AG, could you please help us understand this?

12,431 posted on 04/12/2007 12:50:47 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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