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To: jo kus
Paul very clearly states that we are saved without any works,(Now to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly his faith is counted for righteouness.(Rom.4:5) which means that we are saved by faith alone. (see also Gal.3:11) Brother, we had this converstation before. Paul NOWHERE states "very clearly" that we are saved without ANY works - he says we are not saved by WORKS OF THE LAW! You are making a big presumptuous jump in your logic when Paul dismisses ONE type of work and you believing it includes ALL work. Works of Love are INDEED part of salvation, as Paul clearly writes in 1 Cor 13, one of the most beautiful passages of the New Testament. Paul says that faith without love is WORTHLESS!

What Paul writes is very clear, and nowhwere does he state that works have anything to do with salvation.

If one does not show charity, then one may not be saved, but showing charity does not add to one's salvation, a Christian shows charity because he is saved.

Charity is a fruit issue, not a salvation one.

The English language does not support your theology. Just because Paul says that works of the law do not save, that does not automatically mean that NOTHING saves except works!!! Paul could have just have easily said "we are not saved by works of the law, but we are saved by works of love." Such a statement IS in line with the rest of his writings - not your idea. Paul is ONLY excluding works of the law from the formula. Thus, dietary rules and circumcision mean nothing, as Paul details in many other places, to include Galatians and Romans.

What Paul excludes is anything that can be added by man's efforts and he makes that very clear in Rom.4.

To prove your point, you would have to find a place where Paul says that you need to do something but believe in order to be saved.

Paul never says that anyone has to do anything but have faith in the Risen Saviour in order to be saved (Acts.16:31)

Footnote from the RCC NAS Bible.

Jas.2:24 appears to conflict with Paul's statement. However, James combats the error of the extremists who used the doctrine of justification through faith as a screen for moral self-determination. Paul discusses the subject of holiness in greater detail than does James and beginning with ch.6 shows how justification through faith introduces one to the gift of a new life in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

James and Paul agree. We are saved by faith and works of love. Without either, we are not saved.

James and Paul do agree, works cannot save anyone, they can only show if one has been saved and that is only by faith.

Faith will produce good works, they cannot mix with it to produce salvation.

But to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness. (Rom.4:5).

Nothing could be clearer.

12,062 posted on 03/26/2007 2:34:59 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: fortheDeclaration
RCC NAS Bible: "...error of the extremists who used the doctrine of justification through faith as a screen for moral self-determination. "

LOL. So we're "extremists" if we believe Jesus Christ has paid in full for our redemption so that we now stand acquitted of our sins by the work of Christ upon the cross -- the only work that saves anyone.

And who's really "morally self-determining?" The one who rests on Christ's justification alone or the one who says he's working to earn his salvation?

12,071 posted on 03/26/2007 3:26:29 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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