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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus
According to the Church teaching, the souls are immortal, so death, by necessity, refers only to the body. We don't read of angels dying! But there is more to this, of course, and the best way to describe it is "play on words."

I suppose I would say that SINCE the soul is immortal, that physical death is irrelevant. Real death is eternal separation from God. It seems to me that Jesus spoke exclusively in these terms.

My understanding is that because she never sinned, her body was immaculate (although her "nature" was mortal!), she will not be judged at the End of Times and was therefore taken to heaven as the saved will be at the second Coming.

I don't know why she would escape Judgment. Even within the construct, she could simply be adjudicated innocent on all counts. This line would also seem problematic with all the scripture on the Judgment (i.e., no exceptions).

11,756 posted on 03/23/2007 8:24:59 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus
I don't know why she would escape Judgment. Even within the construct, she could simply be adjudicated innocent on all counts. This line would also seem problematic with all the scripture on the Judgment (i.e., no exceptions).

But her assumption would be exactly that adjudication. Having received particular judgment upon her death, she was absolved of everything and assumed to heaven. we also believe that all the Saints of the Church are in heaven and not in an intermediate state.

If she was without sin then she is guilty of nothing, and needs no pardon. Propensity for sin is not sin. Propnesity towards sin implies fault in our nature which leads to (bodily) corurption and death. She could only resist her propensity by cleaving to God, but she couldn't change her mortal nature.

I think the problem arises with the dogma of Immaculate Conception, for if she were born with the same nature as Eve (pre-Fall) all she had to do is not sin to become immortal. Which is why the Catholic Church is silent on her death. From the Orthodox point of view, her death is certain, for it is ordained "that men die once and then judgment," and there is no reason to doubt her assumption given the belief that she resisted sin.

By the way, +Paul obviously was not of that opinion, for he would have qualified his statement that all have sinned. In other words, +Paul did not think mary was pure and blameless.

11,762 posted on 03/23/2007 10:17:06 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Kolokotronis; jo kus
I don't know why she would escape Judgment.

I don't think the Catholic Church teaches that Our Lady escapes the Judgement altogether; her immaculate conception, sinless life and assuption into heaven merely mean that, perhaps, her particular judgement occurred at her conception, or else was a mere restatement of her sanctity. At General Judgement her role is seen as advocacy for the souls being weighed, together with St. John the Baptist.


11,772 posted on 03/23/2007 11:13:11 AM PDT by annalex
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