Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: blue-duncan
Wow! Nice post! "Meaty" if I may say so int he context and all heh heh heh. Seriously, nice post.

If you look at the context,

Ah, the wonderful chamaeleon, the mirror in which every one of us looks and reports seeing his own face looking back. One man's context is another man's irrelevancy.

Can anything be proved from Scripture? Real question. I'm a skeptic on it. But can we convey the context by choosing verses 29,35,40,47, and 69? What gematria tells us that these verses and these alone provide what we need for accurate interpretation? It's an epistemological question, and I've never seen a good answer.

Jesus used bread and His body and blood as metaphors

Did Jesus intend to deceive? Elsewhere He says, the kingdom of God "is like ...". Here and at the Last Supper He does not say "like". What's up with that? And if they are just metaphors, what's in them to winnow out so many, so that even the twelve seem to be thinking it over ...

One would think that if this "salvation by ritual sacrament" was so important to salvation like belief is that it would be mentioned by the other writers or mentioned again by John... And the rest of the paragraph. Certainly it is question why John does not give an account of the last supper. But it is not a slam dunk to conclude that he does not think it important. Would you say he does not think the Lord's prayer important?

Even in my Protestant days I thought that maybe John's gospel was a mystagogical document, and now I see that it is certainly used that way. John cloaks and lets glimmers show through. I think, but this is a conjecture I admit, he meant to rely precisely on tradition to flesh out (so to speak heh heh heh) what he wrote. For a while there, the Lords prayer and the Sacrament were (i am told ) considered by some to be mysteries NOT to be discussed frankly before the uninitiate. ("The doors, the doors!" Identify that reference and win two weeks in Byzantium)

So that conjecture serves to explain John's reticence. In this reading it's not that it's too unimportant to mention, it's that it's WAY too important to mention.

Of course the nature of the body described is sufficiently problematic that I would hesitate to use the word "physical" to denote what IHS was talking about. I liek your "tense" argument, but hasten to say that the wiggle room is provided by the weird nature of tenses in Hebrew. Does anybody here know how tense is handled in Aramaic?

t is also illogical to think that Jesus meant His physical body as there is no evidence the disciples partook while Jesus was with them

Okay, I'm confused. Are the acocunts of the last supper not evidence?

Thanks again, minnows: nice post.

11,750 posted on 03/23/2007 7:49:32 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Tactical shotty, Marlin 1894c, S&W 686P, Sig 226 & 239, Beretta 92fs & 8357, Glock 22, & attitude!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11744 | View Replies ]


To: Mad Dawg; annalex; Forest Keeper; Quix; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
"Okay, I'm confused. Are the acocunts of the last supper not evidence?"

This is not meant to be sarcasm, but Jesus, as the host of the last supper, did not say to the disciples "bite me", he said "believe in me". The bread and cup at the last supper was just what it was, bread and wine, not the body and blood of Jesus since his body had not been broken and his blood had not been spilt for sin. Jesus, himself, ate the bread and drank the wine with them and then told the disciples he would not drink the wine again until the kingdom. Now if it turns magically into his blood, why would he need to drink his own blood in the kingdom?
11,755 posted on 03/23/2007 8:07:38 AM PDT by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11750 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson