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To: Forest Keeper; annalex; HarleyD; Mad Dawg; Quix; kawaii; kosta50

Gee, FK, isn't it just a bit disingenuous, even by one who doesn't read Greek, to leave out the rest of the passage?

"And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to Him: They have no wine.

And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.

His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye.

Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three measures apiece.

Jesus saith to them: Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

And Jesus saith to them: Draw out now and carry to the chief steward of the feast. And they carried it.

2:9. And when the chief steward had tasted the water made wine and knew not whence it was, but the waiters knew who had drawn the water: the chief steward calleth the bridegroom,

And saith to him: Every man at first setteth forth good wine, and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse. But thou hast kept the good wine until now.

This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee and manifested His glory. And His disciples believed in Him."

Now FK, it seems to me clear, even in so sorry a tongue for matters spiritual as English, that the Theotokos expected, no knew, that He would do something about the wine situation. It seems also perfectly plain that He wasn't ready to perform miracles and that He was "snappish" to His mother...but He did turn the water into fine wine, didn't He, and at his mother's suggestion, a suggestion He clearly understood.


11,734 posted on 03/22/2007 5:13:20 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; annalex; HarleyD; Mad Dawg; Quix; kawaii; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg
Gee, FK, isn't it just a bit disingenuous, even by one who doesn't read Greek, to leave out the rest of the passage?

No. .......... Really. .......... :) I don't see anything helpful to your side in the rest of the passage. Here is part of what you quoted:

His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye. Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three measures apiece. Jesus saith to them: Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And Jesus saith to them: Draw out now and carry to the chief steward of the feast. And they carried it. 2:9. And when the chief steward had tasted the water made wine and knew not whence it was, but the waiters knew who had drawn the water: the chief steward calleth the bridegroom, And saith to him: Every man at first setteth forth good wine, and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse. But thou hast kept the good wine until now. This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee and manifested His glory. And His disciples believed in Him."

Within our context, so what? :)

Now FK, it seems to me clear, even in so sorry a tongue for matters spiritual as English, that the Theotokos expected, no knew, that He would do something about the wine situation.

Yes, sure. I don't know how many 24-hour "Brew-Thrus" were open at the time, but the answer was simply "get more hooch". I don't at all see a miracle as being absolutely required here. I would imagine that beer-runs had already been invented. :) Some friend or neighbor would have been able to dip into his stash in such an emergency. Jesus just decided to handle it His own way.

It seems also perfectly plain that He wasn't ready to perform miracles and that He was "snappish" to His mother...but He did turn the water into fine wine, didn't He, and at his mother's suggestion, a suggestion He clearly understood.

I wouldn't say that He wasn't "ready" to perform a miracle, but for any outside influence. I would say that Jesus was perfectly ready and perfectly prepared at the performance of all of His miracles.

Whether Jesus was "snappish" with Mary here may be fairly debatable, however, I do not think there is enough to say that Mary sinned here. That leads me against that He was cross with her in His heart. When Peter bombed, then He was cross! :)

Jesus certainly did turn the water into wine, but I think the "suggestion" was "please fix the problem", which He could have done by conventional means. I'm thinking that you would agree with me that it is highly likely that Joseph is out of the picture at this point, so Jesus is the MAN of the family. If a problem needed to be solved and Mary wanted to help it would make perfect sense for her to ask her eldest/(only) son to solve the problem.

12,141 posted on 03/29/2007 8:34:59 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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