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To: Forest Keeper
(My having a good vocabulary is the devil's way of distracting me from realizing that it would probably be better for everybody if I just would shut up! -- But when I was learning to talk, I was learning in two languages, one of which I've mostly forgotten. My wife says that that kind of experience affects brain development. I know I LOVE the act and tools of communication - and have a sort of special devotion to our Lord as LOGOS.)

TRIAL BALLON ALERT: I reserve the right to say "An enemy wrote this while I was asleep." I am just trying to figure this out here.

The non-confrontative answer to your closing question is, I think, that we all know that WE reading the Bible need a context of God-given Faith and of prayer. We need the ecclesia to have preserved and handed down the Scriptures to us. And whether or not we, strictly speaking, "need" them, we certainly profit from the scholars and their tools, dictionaries, concordances, etc.

I remember the Bible came alive for me when I was reading Genesis and came to the Terebinths of Mamre and SAW Abraham and his courtesy. That seeing was the gift of God.

Oh, man ... It's a good question, the "what is lacking". I have no clue how to answer it. Let me take a stab:

If you read some hymns without the music, you think, Wow, what tawdry poetry! But WITH the music, sung in Church, it can be a great hymn both objectivley and in terms of how it prompts one to look to God in Love. Check out this hymn which just totally blew me away at Mass this weekend. Being a very manly man, as I'm sure you've observed, I am rarely overcome with tears in Church, since I don't feel pain, I inflict it. Yeah, right. So I'm in my wheelie-chair saying to myself, this is absurd! IT's a HYMN! You can sing it!, Trying, and crying.

I think tradition and the Church is like the music. You all have good concerns about idolatry and a diversion of attention away from GOd. But (it's like) I can't hear you because I am dancing before the Lord. And If I dance away it is as if to gesture at a flower as if to say, "Look at this wonderful thing" and then dance back to Him and say, "And YOU made it from your wonder which surpasses that of the flower more than diamonds surpass mud!"

So while part of the fuel of our feelings when people diss our Lady is, "Uh, That's my mother you're taking about, watch your mouth!" Another part is frustration that because we dance to the flower, our friends rebuked us for dancing away from the Lord.

And if I were to say what the Bible lacked in a set of doctrinal propositions, I think it would be to miss the point. It is not disrespect to rhythm to say it lacks melody and no disrespect to melody to point out its rhythm (or lack thereof). I think likewise the Church needs the Bible, clearly. But the Bible needs the Church.

11,501 posted on 03/20/2007 5:53:17 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Tactical shotty, Marlin 1894c, S&W 686P, Sig 226 & 239, Beretta 92fs & 8357, Glock 22, & attitude!)
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To: Mad Dawg
The non-confrontative answer to your closing question is, I think, that we all know that WE reading the Bible need a context of God-given Faith and of prayer. We need the ecclesia to have preserved and handed down the Scriptures to us. And whether or not we, strictly speaking, "need" them, we certainly profit from the scholars and their tools, dictionaries, concordances, etc.

I'm with you here. Faith and prayer are the context within which to read scripture. The Church's formalization of the Canon was clearly a great thing. And, we all profit from correct teaching and tools.

---------------

Thanks for the hymn, it is beautiful. I think I know what you mean about the music, although I almost never get to sing hymns. :) I usually have about 12 feet of metal pipe attached to my face during the hymns (trombone), so I don't even know the words by heart to most of them. Nevertheless I do have the appreciation.

I have to admit that I'm not exactly sure how to evaluate the comparison. There are plenty of scriptures that I have and do read which I don't get on the first reading. Naturally, one of the things I do is to seek out sources that I trust for clarification. Nothing wrong with that for either of us. I think the original idea was whether scripture alone was a "balanced diet", and my first thought was along the lines of getting everything needed for salvation, rather than understanding every Biblical point. So, we're probably not that far away since I will readily agree that teaching is both good and Biblical.

You all have good concerns about idolatry and a diversion of attention away from GOd. But (it's like) I can't hear you because I am dancing before the Lord. ...

Hmmm. :) Well, I'm glad that your faith is vibrant. That's the way it is supposed to be. And, I am glad for your testimony that your focus always leads back to God in gratitude.

So while part of the fuel of our feelings when people diss our Lady is, "Uh, That's my mother you're taking about, watch your mouth!" Another part is frustration that because we dance to the flower, our friends rebuked us for dancing away from the Lord.

That's interesting. A kind of funny thing is that we don't even feel like we are dissing her. :) In fact, we believe we are sort of sticking up for her. It reminds me of seeing Billy Graham do interviews with TV media. The interviewer usually starts out the intro by giving a laundry list of his accomplishments, and of course he is always polite. But sometimes, when the interviewer goes on for too long (just being nice), Billy almost gets annoyed. He doesn't want that. He would be the first one to tell you that he was nothing more than a simple country preacher who was a sinner. I see Jesus in that. So, in my little head I guess I project that kind of humility onto Mary.

And if I were to say what the Bible lacked in a set of doctrinal propositions, I think it would be to miss the point. It is not disrespect to rhythm to say it lacks melody and no disrespect to melody to point out its rhythm (or lack thereof). I think likewise the Church needs the Bible, clearly. But the Bible needs the Church.

I suppose I would say that all the rhythms, melodies, harmonies, all of it, are all sitting right there in the scripture. God will reveal the tunes to us during our lives as He sees fit. That's one beauty of sanctification. There's always something new, and it's always beautiful.

11,699 posted on 03/22/2007 1:06:49 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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