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To: Kolokotronis; All
They are objects of veneration.

Not if one were ever found to have been secreted into my house!

"As the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught, as the Church has received, as the Teachers have dogmatised, as the Universe has agreed, as Grace has shown forth, as Truth has revealed, as falsehood has been dissolved, as Wisdom has presented, as Christ awarded, thus we declare; thus we assert, thus we preach Christ our true God, and honour His Saints in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in Churches, in Holy Icons; on the one hand worshiping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord; and on the other hand honouring as true servants of the same Lord of all and accordingly offering them veneration.

Sorry, that whole paragraph does not strike me IN THE LEAST as ANY justification for the practices, customs, traditions given--except for a false kind of deluding rationalization--for anything but worship of !!!!TRADITION!!!!

I see nothing Godly and nothing Scriptural and nothing truly lastingly spiritually edifying in a Godly sense in such goals, practices, customs.

I think there was a question about where do I get such an orientation, perspective--yes, in large part from the Old Testament. But not only. I think anyone tuning in with the aid of Holy Spirit to God's heart on such issues would want to avoid such because that's clearly God's heart expressed in Scripture. NO amount of traditions of men, habits, customs, rationalizations can replace GOD'S PRIORITIES AND GOD'S HEART on any matter--particularly one He stated so fiercely as He did the one about avoiding images.

Thanks for your kind questions.

11,481 posted on 03/19/2007 10:16:54 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS ABLE; LOVE GOD WHOLLY, HIM & HIS KINGDOM 1ST)
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To: Quix; annalex; kosta50; Forest Keeper

Quix, the passage I quoted is just a tiny part of what the Council decreed, though it is a good summation. In order to understand what the Council was doing, one has to at least read the acts and comments on the acts of the Council. Its a very long read but here is a link:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-14/Npnf2-14-153.htm

The next page after that title page is a comment page. About half way down there is a section called "What the Council Decreed". That comment goes into some detail about why English speaking Christians have such a hard time with what they "think" the council held. It comes down to both language and the context of the times within which the Council met. The footnotes are particularly important. Its not long at all. (FK, you might find the language and context part interesting apropos of our lens discussion)

If you have the time and read the entire acts and comments on that Council, you will need also to refer to previous council decrees. They too are on line. I think you'll find them quite scriptural.

Finally, though I sincerely recommend that commentary on "What the Council Decreed", if you want to avoid the admittedly tedious read of all the Council documents, try a read of +John Damacene "On Holy Images", sometimes called "The Holy Images". It is a supremely scriptural work laced with some delicious sarcasm and not overly long. Here's a link:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/damascus/icons.txt

Let me know what you think.


11,485 posted on 03/20/2007 4:03:54 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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