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To: jo kus; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Frumanchu

I just went through the entire writings up through Irenaeus...approximately the first 150 years of the church.

There is no hint of the immaculate conception AND there is no hint of any assumption nor of any perpetual virginity nor of any perpetual hymen.

The huge bulk of the comments about Mary are that she was a virgin when she gave birth to our Lord, thereby fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah.

And there was one point in Justin Martyr, IIRC, where it would have been a perfect fit to mention it.

But, alas, nary a hint of any such doctrines.


1,143 posted on 12/12/2006 5:58:22 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
But, alas, nary a hint of any such doctrines.

Tradition ought not to be the source of ANY doctrine.

1,145 posted on 12/12/2006 6:16:39 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: xzins
I just went through the entire writings up through Irenaeus...approximately the first 150 years of the church.

There is no hint of the immaculate conception AND there is no hint of any assumption nor of any perpetual virginity nor of any perpetual hymen.

Later Catholics, such as Jerome, write that it was an "ancient" belief from apostolic times that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Apparently, as I have said before, not EVERYTHING was written the first few years of Christianity.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Regards

1,149 posted on 12/12/2006 6:44:02 AM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: xzins; jo kus; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Frumanchu
The huge bulk of the comments about Mary are that she was a virgin when she gave birth to our Lord, thereby fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah.

Of course. The Virgin Birth is the real miracle. Our Lady's perpetual virginity is a personal aspect of the Incarnation, not a public miracle for anyone but her enemies to comment upon.

when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child [...] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(Apoc. 12)


1,256 posted on 12/13/2006 1:46:25 AM PST by annalex
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