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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "You keep saying that as if the only words that count in the NT were directly quoted from the mouth of Christ."

That sets the stage and the basis. Without it anyone could say anything he wanted and claim it came from Christ.

Isn't that EXACTLY what all the Fathers did? :) Yet, it seems that you accept everything from the consensus patrum as "gospel", and still question what actually IS in scripture.

So, pleasure is sin? I guess that makes displeasure, by necessity, a "blessing?"

Well if you didn't mean it like that, then what did you bring it up for? :)

Everyone is raised from the ground (cf. Rev 20:12); and the seas gave up its dead and they were judged according to their deeds (cf. Rev 20:13) — all (believers and nonbelievers) are judged according to their deeds. Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire (cf. Rev 20:14)

Jesus says: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." Who is "him"? If "him" means all men, then the sentence is non sequitur. Rev. 20:12-14 is talking about the judgment of the lost. It is a completely different idea from the first part of the sentence. I do not think Jesus spoke that incoherently.

Plus, how can you sit there and question Paul's teachings in scripture when you're quoting me Revelation? What's wrong with this picture? :)

11,162 posted on 02/27/2007 7:00:03 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
Isn't that EXACTLY what all the Fathers did? :) Yet, it seems that you accept everything from the consensus patrum as "gospel", and still question what actually IS in scripture

In the Church, the central Scripture are the Gospels. The Gospels are on the altar. The Gospels are carried around the church raised in the air.

The Apostle (Epistles) are on the cantor's stand. They are never carried around the church or raised in the air.

The Homily is on the Gospel readings, not on the Epistle. The Church never treated the Epistles or the Old Testament as one and the same in ranking, that much is clear.

It's not questioning what is Scripture; it knownig where the heart of the scripture is.

Well if you didn't mean it like that, then what did you bring it up for?

I never equated pleasure with sin. You did. What makes sin a sin is a motive, disposition, not what you derive from it. It's what's in your heart that counts.

I do not think Jesus spoke that incoherently. God knocks on eveyrone's hearts. So, Father draws all. But all don't come.

Plus, how can you sit there and question Paul's teachings in scripture when you're quoting me Revelation?

Some of +Paul's teaching is not talked about in the Church (the double-predestination, and the doctrine of atonement, for example). In fact, the Orthodox Church repeats the same readings every year, so there are about 52 or so select sections of the Gospels, Epistles and OT readings (at Vespers and during Great Lent). That hardly covers the hole Bible. It means that although all Scriputre is profittable and good, some parts of it are deemed more important.

11,166 posted on 02/27/2007 9:07:33 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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