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To: Forest Keeper
Can a person do good in God's eyes before he has accepted Christ?

Of course. Some may not know the name or even have a wrong concept of what someone has told them of Christ, but still do good. Religious formation and theology can help, but they're not absolute requirements.

True humility is a commitment against service to one master in favor of service to another.

Humility is knowing one's true place. I don't get the paradign of servitude. Love, compassion, charity.. yes. Dying to self, loving others as ourself. Service in love, yes. Servitude? I don't get that God wants slaves. So I think we're on different pages here, though maybe not, maybe different phrasing or something else.

11,160 posted on 02/27/2007 5:06:32 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: D-fendr; Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; HarleyD
FK: "Can a person do good in God's eyes before he has accepted Christ?"

Of course. Some may not know the name or even have a wrong concept of what someone has told them of Christ, but still do good. Religious formation and theology can help, but they're not absolute requirements.

I would make a sharp distinction between doing good in God's eyes and doing good in man's eyes. I believe the Bible says that the former is only possible for believers. :

Rom 14:23 : 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Rom 3:9-10 : 9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Rom 7:18 : 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

Rom 8:7-8 : 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

These verses and others show man in the state unto which he was born. We cannot please God, we cannot do "good". Only faith in Christ can release us from the bondage of this sinful nature.

Humility is knowing one's true place. I don't get the paradigm of servitude. Love, compassion, charity.. yes. Dying to self, loving others as ourself. Service in love, yes. Servitude? I don't get that God wants slaves. So I think we're on different pages here, though maybe not, maybe different phrasing or something else.

I think part of the point of the slavery language in the Bible is to identify the master. The Bible tells us that we cannot serve two masters, so we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. It also emphasizes that we believers are wholly owned by God. We are not partners with God and we are not cooperators with God. He literally owns us and we are His slaves. This is a good thing.

11,167 posted on 02/27/2007 9:16:13 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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