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To: kosta50
Well, the Essene canon contains numerous apocalypses not found in the "other" Hebrew canon (or LXX for that matter). I suppose you will dismiss that too. If the Essenes were a sect so were the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Along with Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria and Asia Minor, they were all Jewish, they all had different canons, and no sect to the best of my knowledge had any monopoly on what constitutes a "Jewish canon," and that includes the sole-surviving sect of Pharisees who morphed into post-Jamnia Judaism.

The official canon and text rested in the Temple in Jerusalem and was under the perview of the Levitical priests who were given charge of the Tanach. Just when was the responsibility for the Tanach transferred to the Essenes or Alexandria for that matter??? It wasn't.

Do you believe the Apostles would use a 'false' scripture? The crucial question the Protestant side fails to answer is why did the Apostles so overwhemlmingly use the LXX as the source of OT verses, and in fact called it scripture.

Then why doesn't every NT passage match the Septuagint, if that is the case. If it was so overwhelmingly authoritative, then every verse should match the Septuagint verbatim, but the overwhelming majority do not. Why???? And you have to face the fact that those Septuagints may very well be simply quoting from the NT since they were written during the NT period. The writers of the NT would not have been quoting the LXX, but the LXX translators would have taken a short-cut and simply quoted from the Epistles and Gospels.

10,987 posted on 02/22/2007 3:55:00 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
The official canon and text rested in the Temple in Jerusalem and was under the perview of the Levitical priests who were given charge of the Tanach

Negative. The levites in charge of the Temple were Sadducees, whose canon consisted of Torah and not of Tanach (BIG difference!). Five Books of Moses only. That would make your Pharisaical Protestant OT full of "apocrypha."

Extensive research shows that the Septuagint was indeed the basis for OT quotes in the NT. Your theory, on which you and apparently all Protestants reject the LXX, suggests that the Apostles used Christianized (i.e. fraudelent) versions of LXX .

Given their preference for the Septuagint, and the scarcity of NT verses clearly agreeing with the so-called Hebrew text (apparently a total of five), one can only draw a conclusion that some Christians believe the Apostles, although guided by the Holy Spirit, relied on fraudelent and misleading sources.

Assessment of Agreement in Meaning

The New Testament authors show a clear preference for the Septuagint over Masoretic readings.  The following table provides a selection of thirty of the more significant New Testament deviations toward the Septuagint.  The second column shows the New Testament wording, and the rightmost column has the wording from the Hebrew Old Testament.  In each case, the New Testament author is true to the Septuagint.  Red is used to highlight differences between Hebrew and Greek.  All quotations are from the Revised Standard Version.

New/Old Testament Reference
New Testament/Septuagint 
Old Testament/Masoretic Text
Matthew 1.23/ Isaiah 7.14 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel" (which means, God with us). Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 12.21/ Isaiah 42.4 "and in his name will the Gentiles hope." and the coastlands wait for his law.
Matthew 13.14-15/ Isaiah 6.9-10 "For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed" Make the heart of this people fat, and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes
Matthew 15.8-9/ Isaiah 29.13 "in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men." and their fear of me is a commandment of men learned by rote
Matthew 21.16/ Psalm 8.2 "Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise" by the mouths of babes and infants thou hast founded a bulwark
Luke 3.4-6/ Isaiah 40.3-5 "and all flesh shall see the salvation of God." and all flesh shall see it together
Luke 4.18-19/ Isaiah 61.1-2 "to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind" to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison  to those who are bound
Acts 7.42-43/ Amos 5.25-27 "And you took up the tent of Moloch, and the star of the god Rephan, the figures which you made to worship" You shall take up Sakkuth your king, and Kaiwan your star-god, your images, which you made for yourselves
Acts 8.32-33/ Isaiah 53.7-8 "In his humiliation justice was denied him, Who can describe his generation?  For his life is taken up from the earth." By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living
Acts 13.41/ Habakkuk 1.5 "Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish" Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded
Acts 15.16-17/ Amos 9.11-12 "that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name" that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations who are called by my name
Romans 2.24/ Isaiah 52.5 "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." Their rulers wail, says the LORD, and continually all the day my name is despised
Romans 9.27-28/ Isaiah 10.22-23 Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall be saved" For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return
Romans 10.20/ Isaiah 65.1 "I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me" I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me
Romans 11.9-10/ Psalm 69.22 "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a retribution for them; let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs for ever." Let their own table before them become a snare; let their sacrificial feasts [Heb. - for security] be a trap.  Let their eyes be darkened, so that they cannot see; and make their loins tremble continually
Romans 11.26-27/ Isaiah 59.20-21 "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob" And he will come to Zion as Redeemer, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression
Romans 11.34/ Isaiah 40.13 "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or as his counsellor instructed him?
Romans 15.12/ Isaiah 11.10 "The root of Jesse shall come, he who rises to rule the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles hope." the root of Jesse shall stand as an ensign to the peoples; him shall the nations seek
Heb 1.6/ Deut. 32.43 "Let all God's angels worship him." The MT omits this quotation
Heb 2.6-8/ Psalm 8.4-6 "Thou didst make him a little lower than the angels" thou hast made him a little less than God
Heb 2.13/ Isaiah 8.17 "I will put my trust in him." I will hope in him
Heb 3.15/ Psalm 95.7-8 "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion." O that today you would hearken to his voice!  Harden not your hearts, as at Meribah
Heb 8.8-12/ Jer. 31.31-34 "for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord" my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD
Heb 10.5-7/ Psalm 40.6-8 "Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired; but a body hast thou prepared for me" Sacrifice and offering thou dost not desire; but thou hast given me an open ear
Heb 10.37-38/ Hab 2.3-4 "and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." Behold, he whose soul is not upright in him shall fail [Heb. - is puffed up]
Heb 11.21/ Genesis 47.31 "By faith Jacob ... bowing in worship over the head of his staff." Then Israel bowed himself upon the head of his bed
Heb 12.5-6/
Prov 3.11-12
"For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." for the LORD reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights
James 4.6/ Prov 3.34 "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." Toward the scorners he is scornful, but to the humble he shows favor
1 Pet 2.22/ 
Isaiah 53.9
He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth
1 Pet 4.18/
Prov 11.31
"If the righteous man is scarcely saved, where will the impious and sinner appear?" If the righteous is requited on earth, how much more the wicked and the sinner!
Table 2:  Sample New Testament Quotations of the Septuagint

Matthew relies on the Septuagint for the assertion that the Messiah's mother was to be a virgin (Matthew 1.23).  Jesus himself follows the traditional Septuagint wording in condemning the Pharisees' traditions (Matthew 15.8-9). 

The Septuagint clearly prophesies that Jesus will heal the blind (Luke 4.18-19) - but the Masoretic text is more obscure. 

The Septuagint foretold that the Messiah's death would be unjust (Acts 8.32-33) and that the Gentiles would seek the Lord (Acts 15.16-17).  The Hebrew has the nations being "possessed" along with Edom. 

Paul knows that a remnant of Israel will be saved because he was reading the Old Testament in Greek (Romans 9.27-28).  Perhaps if his topic were the return to the Holy Land and not salvation, he would have found the Hebrew reading more suitable. 

Following the Greek, he knows that the Messiah will conquer his people's sin - not that he would come to those who had already cleansed themselves from sin, as the Hebrew would have it (Romans 11.26-27). 

Paul's thought that Jesus would rule the Gentiles also depends on a Septuagint reading (Romans 15.12).  The author of the book of Hebrews - to prove the deity of Christ - proclaims the truth that Jesus is worshipped by all the angels of God (Hebrews 1.6). 

But the Hebrew Old Testament does not contain that verse. 

Also on the basis of the Greek Old Testament, that author asserts that the incarnation was prophecied (Hebrews 10.5-7) - that Jesus would have a body, which he would offer for our sanctification (Hebrews 10.10). 

The Masoretic text at this point stresses auditory capability.  Finally, where the Masoretic text described a nonviolent suffering servant, the Septuagint prophesied a sinless Messiah (1 Peter 2.22).

From The Septuagint in the New Testament

10,993 posted on 02/22/2007 7:57:40 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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