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To: Blogger
I'm trying to categorize the possible ways people accept/choose one group of books as canon. Focusing on this part.

In terms of the Canon, that some people accept by blind faith is evident.

Yes, I agree that is the primary situation. I qualified that earlier from blind faith to an informed decisions: We choose our church and canon simultaneously. I don't think this disagrees with your position here.

I think all of us did at first. However, our faith is affirmed when we read Scripture and see what IT TESTIFIES OF ITSELF.

This is both dependent on the canon and interpretation. Both sides in this claim this and proof text it. If your canon were different it would "testify of itself different."

What makes it canonical is God's opinion of it.

But I'm talking to Blogger and God's not registered on FR.. :). Obviously, B, it's us men and men before us arguing about what we think is God's opinion of what men wrote. We're stuck with that.

The Canon doesn't depend upon Man's affirmation of it.

I'm gonna disagree here. You're conflating God's Word with canon. We have the Word of God, this revealed, this written and THEN the canon. By definion "canon" is the group of written works accepted as genuine, authentic, inspired and true. By definition a canon a canon depends upon man's afirmation. Otherwise all writings are equally non-canonical.

God doesn't have group of written works some of which he considers His canon, some not..

why do you believe that the Canon of Scripture did not exist until a group of Roman Catholic scholars got together in some council someplace declared what it was?

I believe the canon is those writings accepted as the canon by the Church - by definition. Just as someone joining a Protestant Church accepts their canon.

I trust my authority, my Church on determining what is in the canon. I trust their knowledge of provenance and their spiritual knowledge of what Jesus and the Apostles taught in making their decisions on the canon.

You think the Reformers were right and knew better. I don't, so we have a difference in authority here.

10,875 posted on 02/19/2007 9:15:55 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: D-fendr

Why isnt' God's acceptance sufficient for making it a Canon? I simply will not ascribe infallibility to human beings - be they Protestant or Catholic. If my faith is in humans to have gotten it right, then it is mere opinion since humans are not the creators of the truth. But, if my faith is in God to teach His people about what HE considers canonical then my faith is in the creator and embodiment of truth and is on a solid foundation.

The Reformers, while heroic in many aspects, were all too human. If my faith was in them it would be missplaced just as it would be if it were in any of the Church fathers and even the apostles themselves. Without the DIRECT involvement of God we have nothing to place our faith in. Paul would just be writing letters. Peter would just be giving advice to some people being picked on. No. God is the truth. He revealed the truth to the writers of the Bible and directly inspired what was said in the Scripture. Through His Scripture, the church learns about Him and His Will for humanity and themselves. Do you not think that a God who went through that kind of trouble would be a bit odd if He didn't then go the full way and teach His children what that Word was?

So, your authority is He taught the fathers and you live with that by faith.

I started off raised in a Baptist home, but as I said as I got older I determined to know WHY I believed what I believed not just blindly believe anything. Through many years of study and walking with God, I believe by Faith that the Holy Spirit has led me and I believe that such leadership is available to all Christians.

Still, the truth resides with the Lord Himself, not with the Church. The Church has often followed and obeyed the truth, but sometimes they haven't. Sometimes they have gotten depraved (both Protestant and Catholic sides). We would like for them to be perfect, but they are not. Neither are we.

One day, when I get to Heaven, I may find that I missed it on several things. I don't expect to get it all right. But my faith is in my God (not human beings) to lead me to know that which HE wants me to know. I hope it is the same for you and that your relationship with God is not just one where the church helps you reach out to one who can't be touched, but instead is one in which you feel His presence with You every day and Your heart overflows with love just knowing he is there, with you, leading you, guiding you, protecting you, and loving you.

When I was in high school, many moons ago, there was an in crowd and a crowd in the middle and then the "geeks". I was kind of in the middle. On our Senior trip the in crowd did some bad things which caused a lot of hurt and anger for several folks in the class. At that point God spoke to me very clearly in my spirit and said "Don't look at the people. The People will let you down every time. Look at me. I will never fail you." I have never forgotten that. And, be it a pastor, a Sunday School teacher, a family member, or a church council I keep in mind that people are people. They fail. Look to God. He does not.


10,876 posted on 02/19/2007 9:39:29 PM PST by Blogger
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