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To: kosta50

I think the LOVE issue IS a critical issue regarding "free will" vs "hyper predestination."

Scripture includes evidence of BOTH. Calvinists--particularly hyper Calvinists--seem loathe to treat the "free will" verses on their own merit as merely that. They seem compelled to bend them in some way to conform to hyper predestination.

I don't pretend to have it all figured out and am sure I won't this side of Heaven.

I don't know if God COULD have made it clearer to mere mortals. Perhaps such mysteries are beyond our finiteness.

I still like Walter Martin's computer as large as the universe analogy. At the level of the individual actor, there's a strong robust measure of free will. But the programmer also has free will to adjust things for His desired outcome.

I do know, that for authentic Love, there must be a REAL measure of REAL, authentic FREE WILL with applicable consequences. Nothing else makes sense, to me.

We are not totally free will creatures, clearly. Neither can we be total robots and share in and return a robust sort and degree of Love with Almighty God.


10,873 posted on 02/19/2007 8:38:14 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS WORTHY; GOD ALONE PAID THE PRICE; GOD ALONE IS ABLE)
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To: Quix
I don't know if God COULD have made it clearer to mere mortals. Perhaps such mysteries are beyond our finiteness

Agree. We are finite beings and that which is finite can never know the infinite. At best, we can be a bad imitation thereof.

I do know, that for authentic Love, there must be a REAL measure of REAL, authentic FREE WILL with applicable consequences. Nothing else makes sense, to me

Within the confines of our finite world and mind, God created us free. Unlike animals, we are not driven by necessity. We were created in God's image and likeness, endowed with the capacity, as rational beings, to be moral and even holy because we have choices.

Unless we are free to come to God, we are machines that can only react. Such creatures are incapable of unconditional love.

Our freedom does not affect God's plan, as there will undoubtedly be those among us who will choose to follow God and not satan.

The Scripture reminds us that our destinies are tied to our decisions from the heart. "I have heard your prayer, and have seen your tears; behold, I will add to your days fifteen years." [Isa 38:5, LXX]

Our decisions must be from the heart, not from the flesh, for there is no love in the flesh. As Saint Paul reminds us, "if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live." [Rom 8:13]

In order for us to resist the flesh, our heart must be free. We must "think" not by the flesh but by the heart. For love is foolish in the realm of the flesh, as much as flesh is dead in the realm of the heart.

Because God created us body and soul, we have a choice, if we believe. Those who believe in God always have a choice.

10,890 posted on 02/20/2007 6:21:46 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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