And what the Catholic Church teaches doesn't count as baggage???
LOL. INDEED! Though, to be candid, ALL groups . . . just as ALL individuals . . . carry baggage that is antethetical to God's Highest Truth, Will, Plan.
Today, here, now, on this issue, the group may level out the individual askew biases and bring a more Biblical, more Spirit led whole to bear. Tomorrow, there, then, on that issue, the SAME group may multiply the individual satan influenced biases toward an increase in the collective rebellion against God's Highest Truth, Will, Plan. Happens in ALL groups more or less all the time to greater or lesser degree.
When it's sufficiently horrid long enough, we have an Inquisition, papal orgies, "religious wars" for personal power mongering conquest. Most of the time, the horror is an outrageous "merely" multiplication of the preening 'before men' PLAYING CHURCH--habits, customs, traditions, values, priorities.
The notion that the magesterical; the built-up traditions; the spurious 'Apastolic' succession has somehow protected one group of mortals toward a more perfect union of Christian saintliness is beyond utter balderdash.
That sickening silliness UTTERLY IGNORES:
. . .
1) HUMAN NATURE
2) COLLECTIVE HUMAN NATURE
3) BIBLICAL HISTORY OF SUCH with God's CHOSEN people IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS
4) THE HEART OF MAN--WHO CAN KNOW ITS DECEITFUL WICKEDNESS
5) PSYCHODYNAMICS
6) SOCIOLOGICAL FORCES AND DYNAMICS
7) SATAN'S SKILL AT PLAYING COMPLICIT HUMANS LIKE A VERY OFF KEY PIANO
There is NO automatic magIC-sterical to the magisterical any more than Holy Spirit FORCES every Pentecostal to be a super saint.
CHURCHIOLOTRY is and has been alive and far too well in every era and every group. The older the group, the worse it has gotten, in at least several respects
The Gospels read like Christ--not the reformer--Christ the turner-of-the-institutions inside out; upside down and everywhich way but loose. And, His prime candidate to carry the biggest baton--Paul--went through about every hardship, suffering and indignancy known to man of the era. He did not fit the mold of A BUILDER OF EDIFICES.
He fit the mold of . . . well . . . of Jesus. TRUTH AND LOVE--RUTHLESS TRUTH--NO HOLDS BARRED LOVE--AND NOT A SHRED OF LENIENCY TOWARD INDIVIDUAL, GROUP OR ORGANIZATIONAL IDIOCY.
HIS MISSION WAS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. The churches he left were led of Holy Spirit wherein NO INDIVIDUAL was to usurp power over anyone else. Leadership was to be by utter servanthood and by example of Christ perfected in the individual's life. There was Not a hint of any sort of positional lineage. Get the humble wise old codgers to decide tricky questions and go on with The Gospel--was the pattern. Local groups were expected to be charitable toward poor distant groups NOT because they were part of some magicsterically sanctioned organizational structure, edifice but because they loved Jesus.
Well, would you really say that a lost person given a Bible without the Dueterocanonicals would be worse off than with no Bible at all? What are the critical scriptural tenants of Christianity found only in the Dueterocanicals?
LOL. NOW YA GONE TO SPEAKING THE RAW TRUTH! Just keep in mind for your own sanity, Forest, that it's NOT RATIONAL. It's NOT historically accurate. It's NOT Biblical.
It's CHURCHOLOTRY and !!!!TRADITION!!!!
so called sanctified
so called holi-fied
fossilized
calcified
petrified
cold
hard
!!!!TRADITION!!!!
For too many . . . at some level . . . Christ came into the world that they might have an edifice, a structure, a cradle-to-grave many handed organization and script to lead them instead of the Word and Holy Spirit leading them.
It's very addictive . . . the EDIFICE provides 100's if not thousands of cues that one is doing the right thing; that one is kosher; that one is good; that one will MAKE IT. There's lots of
. . .
1) RITUAL
2) !!!!TRADITION!!!!
3) CUSTOMS
4) DEEDS TO PERFORM JUST SO
5) CONFIRMING ORGANIZATIONAL/STRUCTURAL PATS ON THE BACK
6) HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH WITH SUITABLE APPLAUSE
7) COMFORTING BENCHMARKS THAT ONE IS 'DOING IT RIGHT.'
8) CRADLE TO GRAVE WARMLY SOOTHING SMOTHERING IN THE MOTHER CHURCH'S UHHHH NURTURING BREAST.
Alternately we are to work out our own Salvation with fear and trembling--the individual, The Word, Holy Spirit. That's awesome. Scary. So many chances to blow it. Where's the security? Where's the constant affirmation that one's walking in the boundaries? Where's the cradle to grave leading by the hand of the edifice?
Trust HOLY SPIRIT??? I can't see HIM! Be sensitive to HIS MOMENT BY MOMENT LEADING? But His still small voice is too soft. My cravings and biases are so much louder. Naw, the structure's pats on the back and 100's of cues that I'm jumping through all the hoops correctly is much more comforting. Holy Spirit can well . . . cool His jets. The edifice does it soooooo much better.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's the old tent of meeting terror all over again. Layers of edifice, custom, !!!!TRADITION!!!! must comfort and insulate from GOD ALMIGHTY wishing to have a face to face at the tent of meeting with every individual--moment by moment through every day.
Yeah, Pastor, you're probably right . . . He probably wishes He had of redeemed monkies instead.
Likewise, I believe some are frightened to lean on the Spirit and instead want things to make sense, either by figuring it out themselves or by having someone else reason with them why a thing is this way or that. They are like the Greeks in the above passage.
We should remember that doubting Thomas was an apostle, too. Someone who needs the assurance of an edifice or organization or mentor or teacher or leader today - may not, over time.
So we ought to be patient, because as he says, the ones who are called will know Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
[Paul] fit the mold of . . . well . . . of Jesus. TRUTH AND LOVE--RUTHLESS TRUTH--NO HOLDS BARRED LOVE--AND NOT A SHRED OF LENIENCY TOWARD INDIVIDUAL, GROUP OR ORGANIZATIONAL IDIOCY.
Amen. It's never about the group, it's always about Christ. You gave many excellent examples of the problem.