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To: kosta50
The Church does teach everything +Paul taught, except with a different interpretation than the +Paul taught by the Protestants.

Through interpretation, the Bible can be seen to mean anything. I had the impression that you were saying that the Reformed interpretation of Paul was closer to the actual words of Paul, and that was different from what Christ taught.

Herein lies the rub, FK. Everyone who calls on Christ's name claims to teach the 'right' faith.

I suppose that's true, and the ones who have the strongest scriptural support will be closest to the truth. It's the interpretation that causes the problems, not the reliance on scripture.

God is a riddle we cannot solve, but if God revealed Himself to men we presume that He did so that men would 'know' Him and would know what God expects from us. That is not the case. Many if not all those who teach anything the Bible says claim to have the Holy Spirit as a Guide. That's not possible, because the teachings differ so much they are unrecognizable in some cases.

That is exactly the case. :) God reveals Himself to the extent of His will. The scriptures are clear as to what God expects from us. Again the problem is interpretation. When two people stand next to each other preaching different things, and both claim to be led by the Spirit, all we need to do is what the Bereans did, check it against scripture. Different interpretations by different men will lead to different answers. That's unavoidable. I know you believe that a certain group of men always interpret correctly. We disagree because we don't see how those interpretations can reasonably square with the actual words of scripture.

What could be the cause of that discord? The Holy Spirit teaches everyone something else or men fail to understand the essence of faith? I would say the latter.

The Spirit won't lead anyone down a wrong path, but it does appear that He leads according to His own schedule with different people. I wouldn't take it to the level of essence of faith, but it does appear that not all apprehend the truth of the Spirit's leading exactly the same way.

Just because the same-minded people or even individual readers agree with themselves doesn't mean they are right!

Absolutely right. Numbers do not equate with truth.

Western Christian 'confidence' is an expression of this rationalistic dogmatic mindset that believes man can solve every enigma and explain everything through reason. That might be true if man (a) had all the information necessary and (b) the capacity to process it. We don't. So, no matter what we do, we can only 'hope' in God's mercy because we can never be sure that we really 'know' anything for certain.

Even the most learned Reformers would not claim to have everything figured out. There are mysteries. Some just believe there are more than others. :) We do not think the basics of salvation are, or were meant by God to be, mysteries. So, I do think that a) and b), above, do apply to the basics of the faith, but not to everything under the Son. Yes, we have hope in God's mercy, but we can be sure of this hope.

Heb 11:1 : Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

10,725 posted on 02/16/2007 2:19:18 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
I had the impression that you were saying that the Reformed interpretation of Paul was closer to the actual words of Paul, and that was different from what Christ taught

FK, the Church and the Protestants cannot teach +Paul the same way and be ad different as night and day as they are. The divide comes in the perspectives and selectivity. The Church concentrates on those parts of +Paul which agree with the Church; the Protestants do the same except they look for agreement with them. Both sides claim that +Paul taught what Christ taught.

Christ did not teach to abandon circumcision or drop dietary laws or to create a new religion. That much is certain. So, +Paul did teach things Christ never taught — unless, of course, we are to make a leap and say that Christ was really speaking through +Paul. But, then, everything else is up for grabs!

It's the interpretation that causes the problems, not the reliance on scripture

But we rely on the interpretation, FK, not on the scripture itself! The scriputre is not clear and definitive enough to tell us straight and narrow what the meaning is. To the contrary!

The scirputre is full of anecdotes, stories, parables, cultural specificities known only to the locals, time gap, you name it.

That's why my love for Tolstoy's Three Little Hermits and Christ's Two Commandments from the OT are my guiding formula to faith: glorify God and leave the rest to Him.

All the rest is human interpretation, i.e. legalisms, rules, judging, prejudices, and cultural bias.

Different interpretations by different men will lead to different answers

That hardly qualifies as the truth. Trouble is, people make decisions, sometimes decisions of life and death, based on those interpretations. Again, we use religion as a weapon and not as a means to simply acknowledge God's glory and be at peace. No, we must 'interpret' and be 'right.'

The key is not interpretation, FK, but worship. The less we concentrate on interpreting the scriputre 'just right,' and more on worship, the less sinful our lives will be.

Yes, we have hope in God's mercy, but we can be sure of this hope.

That's nonsense, FK.

10,754 posted on 02/17/2007 5:13:44 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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