[Forest Keeper]

FK: "Now, I would say that on Monday I did nothing pleasing to God, but on Wednesday I did. A major difference is that on Monday, I did not help in order to glorify God, but on Wednesday I did."

If, in both cases, you helped her out of selfless compassion, because you loved her as your self, did you only choose to do good on Wednesday?

I think Harley explained this better than I did. I was coming at it from the angle that one cannot choose to give glory to God without believing. Harley noted that God still does use unbelievers to bring glory to Himself, but such works are still not "good" in God's eyes because of the unbelief. He also correctly noted that even when believers choose to do good things, it is really God carrying all the water anyway. I probably was not clear on that.

To address your comment, it depends on what you call "good". What most people call "good" is not what God calls "good". Good in God's eyes is that which is of God.

Mark 10:18 : 18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good — except God alone.

Rom 7:18 : 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

The only nature lost people have is sinful. Therefore, they are incapable of "good" in the Biblical sense. Consequently, on Monday I did not have the tools within me (God) in order to choose to do anything "good". However, on Wednesday we know for sure that the Spirit was indwelling, and that God causes all things that are good. What I took from Harley's comments (and I could be wrong :) was that on Monday "glory" may or may not have happened, but "good" could not have happened. Is that right, Harley?

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply. I feel I'm still not communicating an important point I'd like to consider:

Good in God's eyes is that which is of God.

Isn't selfless love 'of God'. Whether we have properly indentified it or know by name yet, isn't this love God's love through us?

[HarleyD]

What I took from Harley's comments (and I could be wrong :) was that on Monday "glory" may or may not have happened, but "good" could not have happened. Is that right, Harley?

Absolutely. I might add that FK unjustly flatters me. FK is far more knowledgeable and certainly more persistent than I. While our friend D-fendr would like to think there is some inconsistencies between our views, he should find very little disagreements on the substantive issues. What's more we have the Protestant confessions for clarification. They tend to be very clear.