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To: Forest Keeper; annalex
I find it interesting that when Augustine says things you don't like, he is a late comer with only regional appeal, and besides, he took back everything that you didn't like. But when he says things you do like, he is "Blessed Augustine". It was your folks who declared him a saint. Based solely on comments from Catholics, I really see a love-hate relationship with this man.

Love-hate relationship? Who hates St. Augustine and is Catholic? Perhaps you are confusing the fact that he wrote some things that the Church did not accept as "hate"? Perhaps you are confusing the "disgust" for those who twist St. Augustine's writings? But St. Augustine is a key Church Father and you'd be hard pressed to find something he DIDN'T write on regarding the Catholic Faith. I am currently reading some of his sermons on John's Gospel. Quite interesting

Unless the human ritual of Eucharist is salvation itself, isn't death a pretty harsh sentence to proclaim against all non-Apostolics?

Not entirely...

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Cor 11:28-30

and tell me if this reminds you of Protestantism.

Probably most of the writings of the Fathers which survived I disagree with.

Naturally. You have already pre-determined what the Scriptures teach despite what anyone says, and so anything that was written or believed by the entire Church 1000 years ago is inconsequential.

This is the pillar of Protestantism - rather than receiving the Word of God, accepting as something outside of ourselves, you personally decide what it means. Is it any wonder people claim the Bible backs up their own preconceived theological claims that justify their own ideas? St. Irenaeus had to deal with this himself in 180 AD. Fighting the will of God through His Community is nothing new.

Regards

10,330 posted on 02/14/2007 9:04:52 AM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus; annalex
Love-hate relationship? Who hates St. Augustine and is Catholic?

I meant it as an innocent expression. How about like-dislike? :)

FK: "Unless the human ritual of Eucharist is salvation itself, isn't death a pretty harsh sentence to proclaim against all non-Apostolics?"

Not entirely... [See 1 Cor 11:28-30]

OK, I can see where that's coming from. You probably already know, but we apply that passage as to any unbelievers generally, not to believers who don't take the Supper as we do.

You have already pre-determined what the Scriptures teach despite what anyone says, and so anything that was written or believed by the entire Church 1000 years ago is inconsequential.

Oh, that's reaching. I agree with lots of authors and theologians who have gone before me. It just so happens that most of them were not Roman Catholics. Therefore, I would have many disagreements with what the entire RCC believed 1000 years ago. I don't say those beliefs are inconsequential. I am just unpersuaded that most of them are consistent with scripture. Some are scripture-neutral, so while I may not follow them, I don't have any real problems with them either.

This is the pillar of Protestantism - rather than receiving the Word of God, accepting as something outside of ourselves, you personally decide what it means.

Of course we receive the Word of God from outside ourselves. We receive it from God Himself, not from earthly men who claim that only they received it from God Himself. It's a similar process. The difference is in the exclusivity.

10,792 posted on 02/17/2007 9:57:42 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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