Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Where does Paul say he consecrated Timothy and Titus? Serious question as I couldn't find the word "consecrate." Just wondering what your reference was.
Which, I think, could provide a good question for the forum:
In Protestantism, what precisely is "Worship"?
Proper worship, not improper of course.
Noah Webster was a saint. Here is what he said...“No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
The definition I gave works. When we worship God we declare He is worthy. We adore Him. We show him our love. We exalt Him.
All we can do is speak the truth in love. It becomes your responsibility and prayerful consideration to try to understand if we're correct-if this is or is not what God intends for you to do. You alone are responsible and answerable to God.
I admonish thee, that thou stir up the grace of God which is in thee, by the imposition of my hands.(2 Timothy 1:6)
thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee
(Titus 1:5)
See also 1 Timothy 4:14, 5:22.
Okay. Explains why I couldn't find it.
Our church lays hands on people we are ordaining. It is a way of showing our agreement with the calling of God in the person's life.
Thank you!
You are the first RC to admit your theory of Apostolic Succession is matter of history and not Scripture. I appreciate your honesty.
At least well into the 2nd century churches picked their leaders. The criteria for that selection process is laid out in Scripture. Why would your sect think that because you have a long history your selection has anymore weight than the sects that operated outside of your control prior to, or after, the Reformation.
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy distinguish between worship (Latin adoratio, Greek latreia) which is due to God alone, and veneration (Latin veneratio, Greek doulia), which may be lawfully offered to the saints
In practice, how is your veneration of Mary substantively different from your worship of God?
As the Father hath sent me, I also send you(John 20:21)
be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ
(1 Cor 4:16)
how shall they preach unless they be sent
(Romans 10:15)
A Catholic worships by offering sacrifice. Not by kneeling, prostrating, standing on the head or hopping around on one leg. This is why we go to Mass. When you see us offering the consecrated host to Mary, by all means, knock us dead.(4,623)
Perfect response!!!
I read Mount Athos is only for men (the whole island!) I was pondering trying to get permission to visit if we go to Greece this year... (a possibility)
We ask her to intercede for us, we do not pray TO her.
Your right you do have historical records that some churches had bishops. However, your argument falls in that they do not say they were appointed by the Apostles. Also, you find most churches were run by leaders appointed by the congregation. For example, Clement was upset with Corinth because they had removed leaders he liked and installed others they felt were more appropriate.
John does not refer to himself as a Bishop, but as an elder towards the end of his life.
The only way you can make a claim to a special nature to the succession of your church leadership would be in the ordination process, or laying on of hands. Your claim falls if it's based on Apostles appointing leaders because they did not do that.
As Kolo pointed out, there were Bishops called as such during the lifetimes of the apostles.
We know some of them had met the apostles, we know the apostles name bishops, no where do we see the apostles speak against bishops.
I just gave you scriptural references.
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