Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Seems like as good a time as any to listen to James again...
James 1:19 - 26
Be quick to listen but slow to speak and slow to rouse your temper; God’s righteousness is never served by man’s anger. Nobody must imagine that he is religious while he still goes on deceiving himself and not keeping control over his tongue; anyone who does this has the wrong idea of religion.
At least we're talking. ;-)
"The Protestant belief stemming fron this one is wrong: the notion that "saved" is a one time event in the life of man. It is not: one has been saved by the sacrifice of Christ, continues to be saved by working on his faith through his life time, and hopefully but not surely will end up saved at the end of his life in the Particular Judgement."
Sort of an interesting way to put it, A. From an Orthodox perspective, "saved", I suppose, means "theosis", which is a state of union with the uncreated energies of God. Christ's death and resurrection destroyed the power which death formerly held over all of us; in effect, restoring to us the potential to attain, only through God's grace, the "Likness of God" we were originally created for. But being descendant's of Adam and having a nature corrupted by Ancestral Sin, there 's no guarantee that we will ever rise above that corrupt nature, but we now can (but may not) respond to God's grace in a way which will transform us ultimately to both the image and likeness of God. The way we live our lives should be moving towards that similitude with Christ. You know, sometimes that old Protestant saw, "What would Jesus do?" is really right on the money. +Anthony the Great, maybe the greatest of the Desert Fathers wrote:
"Leading the repentant man to undertake spiritual work, the Holy Spirit, Who called him to repentance, also grants him His comforts and teaches him not to turn back nor be attached to anything of this world. To this end, He opens the eyes of the soul and gives her to see the beauty of the purity reached through the works of repentance. In this way He kindles in it zeal for complete purification both of itself and of the body, that the two may be one in purity. For this is the aim of the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit - to purify them completely and bring them back to their original state, in which they were before the Fall, by destroying in them all adulterations introduced by the devil's envy, so that nothing of the enemy should remain therein. Then the body will become obedient to the dictates of the mind in all things, and the mind will masterfully determine its food and drink, its sleep and its every other action, constantly learning from the Holy Spirit to "keep under" the "body, and bring it into subjection" (I Corinthians 9:27) as did Apostle Paul."
+Symeon the New Theologian puts it this way:
"'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."
Its a process of purification wrought by the Holy Spirit. But it is a process which can be stopped by the exercise of man's free will contrary to God's Commandments. You've all seen the icon of the Ladder of Divine Ascent with its monks and hierarchs falling off into the Pit. If the Holy Spirit leaves, well, that's trouble. +Nil Sorsky taught:
"The Holy Spirit often visits us; but if He does not find rest how can He remain? He departs. Joy is in the hearts of those who are cleansed and who are able to maintain within themselves the grace of the Holy Spirit of the All-holy Trinity. There is no greater joy and happiness for man. I am not able to describe to you how one feels then."
Oy!
I am SO convicted!
Kawaii, what was that post in response to?
You missed the point by not looking at what I was referring to.
Oy Vey! Me too.
This thread has been eye opening to say the least with what is purported to be the doctrines around Mary.
She never had marital relations with her husband.
She never had any other children.
She never died, but was assumed into heaven and sits on a throne next to Jesus.
She magnifies prayer requests she likes and Jesus must respond to them.
She pre-exists God, since she is the mother of God.
When Jesus was born it was not a natural child birth and her hymen never broke.
She never had any labor pains.
She was without sin.
Did I miss anything?
It is odd though none of the Apostles wrote about her doing these things, or any other writer from the Apostolic Era.
You're web site and comment.
"One of Luther's most passionate sermons on the Holy Mother was preached on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception."
Its a great sermon, too. But I think you'll find that the the feast was not called the "Feast of the Immaculate Conception" back then.
It's past your bed time.
Wasn't "my website" but the comment evidentally wasn't understood by many of the Mary Venerators.
It's past your bed time.
lol. And I guess if you say you saw it, then it must be true, huh?
I prefer this sermon from an Episcopalian perspective, circa 2001...
Not a bent knee in sight, except before Jesus Christ.
"Does the wording of 4978 bother you as Orthodox?"
Quick answer; Yes. The pictures of the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" bother me too (so do the "Sacred Heart" pictures, but then again, I'm an icon sort of guy). So do terms like "Co-Redemptrix" as they are commonly understood.
I expected that they would as I am seeing a definite distinction in how Catholics view Mary and how Orthodox view her. There are some similarities, but the "veneration" of Catholicism goes much further.
"God is good, dispassionate, and immutable. Now someone who thinks it reasonable and true to affirm that God does not change, may well ask how, in that case, it is possible to speak of God as rejoicing over those who are good and showing mercy to those who honor Him, and as turning away from the wicked and being angry with sinners. To this it must be answered that God neither rejoices nor grows angry, for to rejoice and to be offended are passions; nor is He won over by the gifts of those who honor Him, for that would mean He is swayed by pleasure. It is not right that the Divinity feel pleasure or displeasure from human conditions.
He is good, and He only bestows blessings and never does harm, remaining always the same. We men, on the other hand, if we remain good through resembling God, are united to Him, but if we become evil through not resembling God, we are separated from Him. By living in holiness we cleave to God; but by becoming wicked we make Him our enemy. It is not that He grows angry with us in an arbitrary way, but it is our own sins that prevent God from shining within us and expose us to demons who torture us. And if through prayer and acts of compassion we gain release from our sins, this does not mean that we have won God over and made Him to change, but that through our actions and our turning to the Divinity, we have cured our wickedness and so once more have enjoyment of God's goodness. Thus to say that God turns away from the wicked is like saying that the sun hides itself from the blind." +Anthony the Great
Considering the protestant love for all things written down I'd have thought the more the better with you folks.
It wasn't declared dogma yet was it? Thought that and Papal infallibility were declared such after Marian apparitions in the 1800s
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