'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[MississippiMan]

After you get saved you will be worthy...And you can go right to the source...Right to the head of the class...Straight on up to the King...

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Amen! The Bible makes it clear that we're to pray to GOD. "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be THY name..." is a fairly clear instruction that leaves no doubt about whether a middleman is required.

MM

[Blogger]

As you can find "protestants" who will believe most anything. Lumping a few fringe groups that don't believe in the Trinity in with "Protestants" is as offensive as lumping the Mary is God group in with Catholics - except that the Mary is God group actually claims to be Catholics. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc., as far as I know do not claim to be Protestant.

[Blogger]

If someone were to pick up a book of devotion to Mary on a train or something - You may not have the opportunity.

I do not believe that the episcopal decisions were taken lightly and understand the reasons for them and the meaning behind them. I don't always agree with the decisions made, but that is neither here nor there. I just know that in this world of confusion, we need to be very clear. You don't have people's ear like you did in the 300s. Why, today we would get a council together to discuss a doctrinal issue and Greta Van Sustern would preempt it because Brittany Spears was actually seen dressing modestly.

[spunkets]

"I don't think Jesus referred to John the Baptist as a relative in any particular way. Why? I offered some ideas, but the simple answer is, we don't know."

John was a prophet. That was their notable relationship. It really does't mean anything if one is simply Jesus' brother, or cousin. Even the reference to them(and Mary) in Mark 3 was only as an introduction to His teaching.

[annalex]

Lumping a few fringe groups that don't believe in the Trinity in with "Protestants" is as offensive as lumping the Mary is God group in with Catholics

Yes, and I would not do that; maybe someone else did. I may have mentioned two things in this regard:

- That the Trinitarian theology itself is a product of the Church, which was formed in no small measure in discussions about Mother of God and such. It is not a self-evidently scriptural belief. The fact that there are non-trinitarian groups that profess Sola Scriptura is witness to that, even though they should not be lumped up with the Protestants.

- That there is enough fracture inside legitimate Protestantism, even though all subscribe to the four Solas. Compare, for example, Lutherans and non-credal baptists. While these differences mught seem small to you, they indicate that at least on these matters, the putative leadership of the Holy Ghost of all believers is not there.

[kosta50]

"MIGCM has supporters in at least 2 major islands in the Philippines and has close associations with some influential catholic priests. Dominic though, refrained from giving more information when asked to name his supporters in the Clergy. Noticeably the Archdiocese is still silent on the matter despite complaints by some concerned Catholics on what they claim as heresy being propagated by MIGCM. The movement, which is barely two months old, is constantly progressing and its activities are quite conspicuous in the Internet." MIGCM

Sounds like a local heretical group in its infancy.

[kosta50]

something physical had to happen

Just as when Jesus appeard through a closed door. God is not subject to laws of nature.

it wasn't fertilized in any humanly capable way

Where do you find in the Scriputre that her egg was "fertilized?" You are calling light-through-the-glass an invention and you are giving detailed bilogical "facts" about Incarnation.

Again, fertilized egg consists of DNA from both parents. Are you suggesting now also that in thi case the haploid was mysteriously made into a diploid (whose DNA?) or else Jesus would be a female, that is – if a halpoid could progress into a human being.

[spunkets]

"That the Trinitarian theology itself is a product of the Church, which was formed in no small measure in discussions about Mother of God and such. It is not a self-evidently scriptural belief."

The trinity is contained within scripture. It's a logical concept that can only be known and understood by usingthe rational mind. "Self evident" refers to axiomatic beliefs, which are not given in scripture. God gave nothing that is axiomatic(self evident), only what can be learned and understood from what He said.

"the putative leadership of the Holy Ghost of all believers is not there."

God does not dictate. His gift of free will was given unconditionally. He came here to teach and it is the same with the Holy Spirit. If one doesn't learn and understand, it does not mean the teachings weren't there, or were bad. He spoke only in parables for a reason. That was so that man would use His own mind. It was the same with Jesus.

[spunkets]

" Just as when Jesus appeard through a closed door.

Jesus had already died. This was His glorified body in which He had risen.

"God is not subject to laws of nature."

God is real. That means He's subject to the physics of both the world He lives in and the world He created.

" Where do you find in the Scriputre that her egg was "fertilized?""

Where do you find in my posts that I said it was?

"Are you suggesting now also that in thi case the haploid was mysteriously made into a diploid (whose DNA?) or else Jesus would be a female, that is – if a halpoid could progress into a human being."

I'm claiming God must have made it diploid. The question of whose DNA is irrelvant. THe DNA for the compliment was configured by God, as His own, to serve as the machinery for the function of spirit in this world, just as the soul serves to provide the functions of spirit in God's world. ie., Heaven, hell. I'm sure the Father knew how to do that, even though Jesus did not.

[BnBlFlag]

How is the movie's depiction of Mary's delivery "Anti - Catholic"? If the infant Jesus just popped out without any pain , blood or water, would that be Anti - Protestant"?

[Blogger]

Could be. But they are big enough to be featured on Fox News.

[Blogger]

Or that folks aren't listening.

I said it earlier on the the thread and got chastised for saying it. But I believe that the Lord left some things open to interpretation so that we WOULD debate it. The Bible calls it iron sharpening iron. It causes us to dig in His Word and see what the truth is. At times, the contention is so deep that it is best for us to part ways. Paul and Barnabus did so. There was nothing wrong with that.

[Forest Keeper]

FK: "The only possibility for all humanity to truly love God would be via God's direct intervention and decree. We would not be capable."

He did, FK. Its called the Incarnation.

I assume you mean that God made it possible. I was thinking more along the results-oriented line and whether God actually decreed something. By the results, it appears not.

Thanks very much for the Athanasius link. I've bookmarked it for when time permits.

[spunkets]

The Theotokos.

The Mother of God. It is my understanding that Mary is the Mother of God. God would not be a trinity, unless He was born of woman. Genesis says that Eve was the mother of all the living. Genesis 3:20, "Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living." Adam was simply the first man. God is the Father of all the living and Mary is the Mother of God.

BTW, this icon was linked from and can be obtained from St. Isaac of Syria Skete an Orthodox monastery down the road a bit here.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Bible calls it iron sharpening iron. It causes us to dig in His Word and see what the truth is.

Amen. There is only one truth, and you're correct. Our job is to study the word and discern God's will. God's purpose is not always easy to understand, but it's always there.

"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." -- 1 Corinthians 11:19

[P-Marlowe]

God would not be a trinity, unless He was born of woman.

What you are saying is that the Trinity came into existence in 4 B.C.!!!!?????

I thought I'd seen everything.

So this makes Mary the Mother and progenitor of the Trinity. Wow. No wonder you guys worship her.

[Forest Keeper]

FK: "The only possibility for all humanity to truly love God would be via God's direct intervention and decree."

Maybe you have heard of Incarnation and Resurrection?

Sure, but unless God is a complete failure, He did not decree that everyone love Him. That's all I meant.

FK: "There will be no comparison to anything humans could come up with."

Then you must not believe that those "in heaven" will be Christ-like.

I do not follow you. There will be no sin in Heaven. That makes it incomparable.

[spunkets]

"What you are saying is that the Trinity came into existence in 4 B.C.!!!!?????"

As far as time in this world goes, yes. If you don't think so, then you'll have to explain how Jesus existed, before He was born.

"So this makes Mary the Mother and progenitor of the Trinity. Wow. No wonder you guys worship her."

I don't worship Mary. I respect her. Mary is the Mother of God, because she bore Jesus. In order for God to be a trinity, the man part must exist. You do know that all men are trinity right?

[P-Marlowe]

If you don't think so, then you'll have to explain how Jesus existed, before He was born.

Holy Cow! You do believe that nonsense! You do believe that the Trinity only came into existence in 4 B.C.!!!!! You don't believe that the Trinity is eternal!! You don't believe that Jesus Christ is eternal!!!!

How many of your Catholic buddies believe this nonsense? Are you just making this up as you go along, or did someone tell you this is what you are supposed to believe.

[Buggman]

If you don't think so, then you'll have to explain how Jesus existed, before He was born.

My roomate, who isn't even a believer, says he thinks that's covered in John 1:1 or something like that. Anyone care to look it up to check?