Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
At that time Jesus said in reply, “I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike.
(Matthew 11-24-25_
“The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done.”
-Mother Teresa
I,m finished posting you and I really don,t care what else you have to say until you step down from that “high horse”some day.
You think you can do something for your salvation, and don't regard that as arrogrance and self-pride?
I will continue to humble myself to our Lord and give of myself for the good of others But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
And it will not help you one bit in being saved.
Read Acts 10, Cornilus was a 'devout man' did good works and yet was an unsaved man.
Your good deeds are not going to get you eternal life.
You must receive the free gift by faith and only by faith.
Then produce works in the power of the Holy Spirit (Gal.5:22)
At that time Jesus said in reply, “I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike. (Matthew 11-24-25_
Yes, the Lord was speaking of the scribes and Pharisees, those who liked to walk around in long robes, for pretense make long prayers, take the formost seats in the banquets, devour the goods of widows and ophans, and be called 'master' and 'father'-know any of these guys today?
“The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done.” -Mother Teresa
LOL!
And what does that have to do with salvation?
I,m finished posting you and I really don,t care what else you have to say until you step down from that “high horse”some day.
Thank you for making your post short.
So when you find out when something is free but you have to still work for it, let me know.
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved!
Acts 1:8, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” The great commission has universally been interpreted to mean it is incumbent on all believers to make disciples. It was only after the professional class saw their influence dwindling as the masses equipped with the word of God became bold in their witness, that they took to heart the words of that great saint, Le Petomane, “We’ve gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen, we must do something about this immediately!” and reinterpreted the Great Commission as speaking only to them.
BD: Acts 1:8, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” The great commission has universally been interpreted to mean it is incumbent on all believers to make disciples
That's not what the NT says anywhere. I have already pointed out that the Great Commission was given to the 11 (remaining) Apostles, not all of whom believed.
The book of Acts to which you reference tells us
In fact, the entire Act 1:1-8 is a dialogue between Christ and his Apostles only, and that, of course, includes verse 1:8 which you present as evidence to the contrary!
Where Christ is quoted as saying "You shall be witness..." it refers to the Apostles and no one else because no one else was there! This is perfectly consistent with 1 Cor 12:28-29
All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
and Eph 4:11
So, the only thing that is phoney-baloney is the "universal" interpretation that He commissioned all the believers. Rather, He gave the authority to choose others, consecrate and bless (to bind and losen) only to them His 11 remaining disciples.
FK: "My view is that real NT Christianity is the fulfillment of RIGHTEOUS OT Judaism, as opposed to common OT Judaism at the time."
The faith God gave mankind is not Judaism, FK. He gave it to the Jews first because they were chosen to do the awesome task of spreading it to the rest of mankind, but not as a nation; rather, through few brave and dedicated individuals.
I was trying to imply that "righteous OT Judaism" IS Christianity. Anyway, while I am somewhat pressed to come up with examples of NT-type evangelism in the OT, I do think the nation of Israel WAS called to evangelize by example to the rest of the world:
Deut 14:2 : ... for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. KJV
---------------
Christianity represents that true faith, spread to the rest of the mankind and not confined to one nation, or "owned" by one nation. So, we can't call it Judaism. Judaism is what it was not supposed to be.
I certainly agree wrt the Judaism of today. That's why I was trying to draw a distinction. I believe the faith of the OT righteous WAS a true Christian faith. Christ is all over the OT. The righteous looked forward to His coming, and they did so correctly. Only one type of faith saves. God did not change the rules midstream.
+Paul did not consider being a follower of Christ as a new religion, so he does not speak as someone who "left" Judaism or ceased being a Jew. He realized that the righteous faith you speak of is not narrow-interest national religion, but that God's love is a supra-national umbrella that has room for the Jew and Gentile alike and that he gives a soul to each and every one of us.
That's right, I fully agree. But that leaves me a little confused on your view because earlier you said that Judaism and Christianity are not compatible. If you mean the Judaism of today plus that which was wrongly practiced back then, then we agree.
The only way we can be left out of God's loving grace is if we refuse it!
In the spirit of the Patristic Fathers I thought of a way we could both agree here. How about this:
The only way we can be left out of God's loving grace is if we do not receive it! :)
““Where did you get “all believers” from?”
“Acts 1:8, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
Now let’s see, on whom did the Holy Spirit fall, Acts 2:18, “ And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:” Sounds like it was for all to be witnesses. It was the the christians that were dispersed because of the Stephen persecution that carried the Gospel to Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" -- Acts 10:44-45;47"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
How does the Holy Ghost come to men? Through the Scriptures. "The Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."
And who hears the word? Those to whom God has given new ears with which to hear and a new heart with which to understand.
Our Lord Jesus Christ was the High Priest in His human nature. He prayed a lot, as any priest should. The healing is the divine power that comes in response to our prayers. Since His prayers were always true and perfect prayers, they were always fulfilled. Ours are not, because our motivations are not always true or pure, but selfish and ungrateful.
Well, I have to admit that I never thought of it that way before. So, are you saying that the Divine power within Jesus lay dormant during His physical life, but instead there was an exercise of power separately from the Father because of perfect prayer? I'm really stumped. :) I mean, scripture DOES say that perfect prayer gives perfect results. I have always thought that Jesus' Divine power DID manifest itself through miracles, by His own calling. You raise a very interesting issue.
Hmmmmm....doesn't that fly in the face of people who have seen Mary (like Fatima) or Joan of Arc who claim to have seen a vision? How about weeping stautes, lighted pictures or grilled cheese sandwiches? It seems that the argument is really, "The Holy Spirit does not speak to individuals unless we say that the Holy Spirit has talked to them."
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
There seems to be an assumption that I don’t comment on the other hazards when The Lord dumps them forcefully in my lap.
That’s an erroneous assumption.
Now, Dr E . . . None of my profs would have EVER let me get away with such a brazen leap of pseudo-logic.
Holy Spirit falling on those who have heard The Word is NOT equal to Holy Spirit speaking only through the reading of The Word. Narrow Biases do NOT equal Biblically sound logic--in my experiences--MOST of the time.
Further, the fact remains that most of the folks who construe it that God ONLY speaks through logical intellectual reading of The Word post John running out of ink at the end of Revelation--those folks STILL TYPICALLY DO HAVE experiences [oh my!] wherein they are reading along normally quite intellectually in Scripture . . . and suddenly a verse or phrase leaps out at them as though with neon lights on it and an angel chorus acclaim it as the answer to an issue, concer, question of long concern and angst.
Of course, that's essentially the same as Holy Spirit speaking individually and leading individually into all truth; guiding for marriage choice; guiding to take a different route to work to avoid an accident etc.
Could you say that in English, Quix?
You listed a bunch of spiritual hazards more evidenced by other denominations than the RC’s and Orthies . . . at least theoretically.
With the exhortation that I should focus at least as much on those other spiritual ills and hazards of other groups.
That constituted, to me, an assumption that I didn’t already focus on such other spiritual problems whenever God dumped them into my lap.
Such an assumption is simply not true. I comment on all God throws in my lap that feels important to comment on.
Including . . . Marion junk.
BD, you left out the most important thing: what +Peter said was what all the Apostles expected: they were convinced they were facing the end-opf-times apocalypse. +Peter was quoting Prophet Joel, not making long term plans for evangelism:
But we all know that Prophet Joel's prophesy did not apply, did it?
Who is Marion?
Such an assumption is simply not true. I comment on all God throws in my lap that feels important to comment on
I don't ever remember reading antyhing from you regarding other spiritual ills...it's not an assumption; it's an impression based on what you post.
The Church doesn't teach that. To the contrary. We also hear the Gospel and Epistle every Sunday, and OT during vespers. That still doesn't change the fact that the Bible establishes Church hierarchy, some as apostles, some as prophets, and some as teachers...not anyone who claim to have indwelling Spirit.
HD: Hmmmmm....doesn't that fly in the face of people who have seen Mary (like Fatima) or Joan of Arc who claim to have seen a vision? How about weeping stautes, lighted pictures or grilled cheese sandwiches?
How is that different from those who claim that "Spirit guides" them in their reading? Is there a difference between hallucinations and delusions? People "hearing" voices and "seeing" Jesus on grilled cheese sandwiches are all in the same league.
Remember that the eternal God the Word humbled himself to become man. He came to undo what Adam did, to counter an undefiled man's disobedience with an undefiled Man's perfect obedience. His human will was never in conflict with His divine will; nor was His divine will in anything but perfect harmony with the will of the Father, and vice versa: for it was Christ who willed Himself to die with Father's concordance; and it was Christ's divine nature that resurrected the Body. So, I wouldn't say His divine nature was dormant; God never sleeps. :)
Kosta: "If he did, then he is wrong. Unbaptized infants who die are innocent because they never get to walk on earth and do evil things."
He did, and he wasn't wrong. :) In fact, Harley's paraphrase was exceedingly accurate, i.e. "walked this earth". That leaves out your objection above.
Although without absolute certitude, I am comfortable with the idea that those who die before reaching the age of maturity go to Heaven. I am comfortable enough that I would act on it. For example, if I was consoling someone who had just had a miscarriage, I might offer words along the lines of "she is in Heaven now". However, if I was consoling someone whose mother just died, and the only inclination I had was that she was not a Christian, then I would not offer words to the same effect.
The people were accusing the gathered 150 disciples on whom the Holy Spirit had descended upon and accused them of being drunk. Peter’s response was that this enthusiasm was the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.
“But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
So, yes that portion of the prophecy was being fulfilled in their presence.
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