Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Yeah, right.
Yes, that is right,look at the context, not at what your Church teaches.
It is funny that whereever one of those who believe in 'regeneration by water baptism' sees water they think baptism,(Jn.3) and whenever they see baptism, they think water! (Rom.6,1Cor.12,)
Water is a figure of spiritual baptism, as 'Pope' Peter explained in 1Pe.3:21
PRAISE GOD! AMEN!
As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
~Deuteronomy 32:11-12
Precious passage.
Don’t remember where but I heard Ravi in person. Great Christian.
Discovered the other day that he’s now the editor of Walter Martin’s KINGDOM OF THE CULTS.
Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall
is a crucial sobering Scripture for us all.
To avoid coopearting with learning to hear and obey God’s voice out of FEAR OF FAILURE is NOT a valid spiritual alternative.
As I was just getting up, the MP3 Scriptures were on the parable of the 3 talents/minah’s and the one who buried his in the ground out of fear was not rewarded.
And, in another passage, those noted as being rejected to outer darkness (IIRC) along with homosexuals, liars etc. are . . . cowards.
There is no word for “places” in Eph. 1:20. The word is heavenlies, like region of the heavens or heaven itself. It is also used for temole or tabernacle in the heaven. The word “heavenlies” does not mean in many places at once.
Interesting. Thanks.
What’s your analysis of the verse about:
This generation shall not pass away until all these things . . .
Not to be ruse but look at all of my replies on the many eschatological (interpreted anti-dispensational) threads that have cropped up lately. I don’t want to turn this thread into one.
No sweat. Sorry.
Nothing to be sorry about. This thread has taken so many turns, to prolong it with a discussion on eschatology seems to be a distraction.
Let this bother the sola scriptura superstitionists. The entire Trinitarian dogma is not to be found in the New Testament alone, strictly speaking. The Creed is a precise expression of the Christian faith.
I don’t disagree with your post at all, inasmuch as I can penetrate your meaning.
Gwarsh. Should I check myself for shock?
Thanks much.
My overall impression is that in the preponderance of the scripture divine election is spoken of as something which God predestines when man at times wrestles out of, to his perdition. The notion of absolute predestination may be found too, especially in Romans 8:29f, but it is not prevalent. References to election that is conditional on the cooperation of the will “make your election sure”, “in order that the election might stand”, etc. are more common.
Why is it so? It is because the inspired authors recognized the absolute foreknowledge of God, but also because they were more concerned about teaching the Way, and less about theology lessons.
The theology is, of course, that divine foreknowledge also foreknows human cooperation with grace, “by works faith was made perfect”.
The word in question is επουράνιος (epοuránιos)
Some bibles translate it as "places" some as "realms" and some as "heavenlies."
Two major English dictionaries do not recognize the word heavenlies as an English word.
The Latin (Vulgate) version translates the word as caelestibus. Three Latin dictionaries I consulted do not have that word either.
The NT Greek dictionary translates it in many ways, some of wich could be interpreted as in the plural, in Ephesians always used as "heavenly places" (KJV, NAB), in other places in the NT used differently, some plural, some singular, others as adjectives.
Be it as it may, major English-language bibles translate it as "heavenly places" or "heavenly realms." Certainly God is not "absent" from any of those, but rather always present in all of them simultaneously, and that would mean that Christ is bodly present in the heavenly realm at the same time, just as God is simultaneously in the past, present and future. Jewish scholars would "expalin" it as a paradox.
The realm of God is believed to be dimentionless and timeless (the Kabbalistic Ein Sof), neither space nor void, immaterial, the true singularity, the ultimate 'black hole' from which all things come and all things disappear.
Banditry is a very Christian thing. Christ taught us to drop out (Luke 9:62), seek invisible kingdoms (Luke 12:31), transform cosmic calendars to ourselves (Mark 2:27), run to the hills (Mark 13:14) with a sword and no clothes on (Luke 22:36), despise democracy (Matthew 27:20), talk down to governments (John 19:11), commune with robbers (Luke 23:43), and imitate thieves (2 Peter 3:10).
The scripture is what the Church teaches. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Water is a figure of spiritual baptism, as 'Pope' Peter explained in 1Pe.3:21
He explains that water is the form of it:
they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also.
For what it’s worth, Kosta, the Hebrew for “sky” or “heaven” is a singular that has a plural form, “shamaim”, which might be influencing St. Paul’s wording. We see it reflected in English “heavens”. I would not read polilocation into it.
“Banditry is a very Christian thing.”
For this reason, The Faith took root early and deeply in the Balkans! We were predisposed to it. Its the air! :)
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