Read post 4, and then try to tell me that Irenaeus was a sola scriptura adherent.
--What if the Apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not then be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the Churches?
But they HAD and his argument is that Scripture, the writings ARE superior to the order of tradition. But that is how I read it.
--The true gnosis is the doctrine of the Apostles, and the ancient organization of the Church throughout the whole world, and the manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of bishops, by which successions the bishops have handed down the Church which is found everywhere; and the very complete tradition of the Scriptures, which have come down to us by being guarded against falsification, and which are received without addition or deletion; and reading without falsification, and a legitimate and diligent exposition according the Scriptures, without danger and without blasphemy; and the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and more honored than all the other charismatic gifts.
Auigh! He mentions gnosis! (jk). Very COMPLETE tradition of the Scriptures. Exact truth, very complete. Yup, sounds pretty much the same. I never said that the Early Church Fathers elevation of the Scripture was not a bad tradition. I just do not like the word tradition because it encompasses much heresy in the Catholic Church and do not want the Sacred Scripture even somewhat tainted by the term. IF the Scripture is very complete, then the Marian Doctrines, Purgatory, the saints, etc should be in it, no? Or does Irenaeus have more Scripture than we do? Differing Scripture? Sounds like he agrees with me here. Let me check the Gospels for the veneration, aka worship, of Mary, the mediatorix betwixt Jesus and us...Nope, still not there. Maybe the Tradition of the Scripture will change tonight, I'll get back to you then...Through Christ alone, nobody else stands between God and man.
--Not merely in works, but even in faith man's freedom of choice under his own control is preserved by the Lord, who says, "Let it be done to you according to your faith," showing therewith that man has a faith of his own, just as he has judgement especially his own. And again, "All things are possible to him that believes;" and "Go, as you have believed, so be it done to you." All such expressions demonstrate that man is, as far as faith is concerned, under his own control.
And? If this is a shot at predestination this just shows that you really have no good handle on the Calvinist doctrine. Through grace, through faith in Jesus Christ we are free from the bondage of sin. We can do what is our own will, and is also the will of God, as we are his instruments, and what we do is all for His glory, which is His will. Ergo, we do as we will, which is His will.
Come back and play, Campion! Don't take your Jurgens and go home!
"When, however, they [the heretics and Gnostics] are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn around and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of TRADITION. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but by VIVA VOCE." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies Book III, Chapter 2, Verse 1]
Sound familiar? Holy Father Irenaeus has just nailed the Roman Catholic Church and its historic use of these things called TRADITIONS that run counter to the Scriptures as being sourced not in the Church or its patriarchs, but in the Gnostics and Heretics and Marcionites of his day.