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To: Campion; Ottofire

Tradition of Irenaeus' day consisted of what was taught by Polycarp; not St. Joe who based his works on St. Sam who based his works on St. Chuck who based his works on St. Fred who based his works on.... Well you should get the picture. All of the early church fathers referred heavily to the scripture-not tradition-to support their views. Irenaeus would be a Presbyterian (PCA) today.


11 posted on 11/28/2006 1:49:28 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: HarleyD; Campion
All of the early church fathers referred heavily to the scripture-not tradition-to support their views. Irenaeus would be a Presbyterian (PCA) today.

I'm sorry, Harley, that's simply flat out wrong. Read *carefully* the very first quote that Campion posted above. You can also read Irenaeus's Against Heresies online.

Read especially Book 3 Chapter 2: The Heretics Follow Neither Scripture Nor Tradition

Book 3 Chapter 3: A refutation of the heretics, from the fact that, in the various churches, a perpetual succession of bishops was kept up

And Book 3 Chapter 4: The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the Catholic Church, the sole depository of apostolical doctrine. Heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.

There is *no* possible way you can read Irenaeus in any other way but that he was a strong, strong partisan of the authority of the Church through Apostolic Succession, and particularly of the Bishop of Rome.

12 posted on 11/28/2006 5:50:46 AM PST by Claud
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To: HarleyD
Tradition of Irenaeus' day consisted of what was taught by Polycarp;

So did Irenaeus get from Polycarp the notion that it was a matter of *necessity* that all churches had to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome?

13 posted on 11/28/2006 5:53:49 AM PST by Claud
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To: HarleyD
" Irenaeus would be a Presbyterian (PCA) today."
______________________________

As were most Christian sects in that first generation succeeding the Apostles.
17 posted on 11/28/2006 7:55:22 AM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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To: HarleyD
Irenaeus would be a Presbyterian (PCA) today.

PCA Presbyterians believe in the Apostolic succession of bishops, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and Mary as the "New Eve"? Do tell! Because Irenaeus believed in all of those things.

32 posted on 11/28/2006 10:32:35 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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