Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history

Vivificat! - News, Opinions, Commentary, from a Personal Catholic Perspective ^ | 21 November 2006 | Dinesh D'Souza

[Lakeshark]

Blaming atheism for any particular nutcase regime is as absurd

Beg pardon, but thinking Marxism was just a series of singular nutcases is as close to irrational as it gets.

It is shown itself to be the worst system of all, atheism with a bloodlust and mandate to kill anyone who disagrees with their philosophy. Proven over and over again vitually everywhere its tried.

[Lakeshark]

Marxism is the only atheistic system to find power in government to date.

It is atheism incarnate, from its founder throughout its history.

That's not an assertion, it's simply true as outlined in its own texts and regimes.

Now try proving I'm wrong because you can't.

[Lakeshark]

See post 21 and respond to it also.

I'm curious to hear how you do.

[zbigreddogz]

Dinesh is the man. Good article. I don't agree with all of it, but overall, he's right.

[Teófilo]

Good arguments, y'all! Interesting all of them!

Very quickly: Yes, Darkwolf377. I agree with Mr. D'Souza in his appreciation that the 9/11 terrorists were courageous in their own way. I mean, it takes a certain kind of courage to slap the face of God and they did it. Perhaps they were fools, perhaps they were courageous, perhaps they were valiant fools. But I don't think they were cowards. Nor do I think that Mr. D'Souza ducked responsibility for excesses made in the name of Christ, on the contrary, he accepted them. His point was that atheists continually excuse the excesses of their brethren.

Reader David: I heard "my _____ Christianity is not a religion" the argument for the first time in the mouth of Evangelical Christians back in the 80's and 90's when I started to pay attention to what they were saying. I think it is a cop-out to try to rise over the argument. The word "religion" is susceptible of various meanings and Eastern Orthodoxy would fall right in, along with Roman Catholicism and the rest. Good job on the rest of the post, though.

Nateman, you said that "socialism is the real killer here." I am not a socialist, but in their defense, I wish to point that Mr. D'Souza didn't even mention them in this piece.

Elfman, you point out that the real cause of runaway killings is fanaticism. I tend to agree. The point is that whereas Christians have already said long *mea culpas* for all sort of excesses, real or imagined, atheists haven't and many in their pride think that excesses made in the name of secularism and atheis does not concern them. Like Mr. D'Souza points out, that's hubris.

That's it! Thank you all!

-Theo

[Lakeshark]

Sohlznetsin says over 100 million were killed in the Gulags alone, almost 200 million since Lenin started the whole thing including the Eastern bloc coungtries.

China killed over 50 mil.

Cambodia slaughtered almost 2 mil.

Viet Nam only about 750 thou.

Cuba, Nicaragua, Korea.....all of them slaughtered their dissidents.

That's a pretty bloody century for atheist regimes don't you think? You can call that an assertion if you like.....I call it a pretty strong pattern myself. /sarcasm

[Lakeshark]

Fanaticism is an interesting bogeyman.

If you think about it, that's simply too vague to be true. Examples: The Moravians were fanatics, they killed few if any. Modern day Pentecostals can be seen as fanatics, they killed few if any. The Sierra club are fanatics, they killed few if any. Nudists are fanatics, they killed few, if any.

It's more than simply being fanatic. Heck, football fans like me are fanatic too....

:-)

[SaltyJoe]

Most atheists arguments are diversion tactics of trying to hide sin. Unrepentance of mortal sin is a life of misery and death, and no soul could ever be happy in sin. But atheists refuse to find the joy of righteousness. So, all religion becomes the enemy of atheists who are unable to make joy of their abysmal despair in sin. It's religion that names their disease.

Here's the logic I notice:

"Because he is so in love with (insert sin) he hated anyone who recognized his sinful disease. Since those with vision are usually religious or have a religious education, the sinner became an atheist against all religions that could expose his illness."

Former atheists can see through such smoke and mirrors. When we stop lying to ourselves and personalized our relationship with God instead criminalizing Him because of mankind's fallen nature then we'll be less critical of human effort (and especially our own).

Atheism is the pit of despair to condemn all life achievements. For what does it matter when we're all damned to eternal death? What is the worth of being well remembered? Pleasure is paramount and atheism is a diabolic religion of xenophobic self-worship whether in pursue of power or pleasure. What narcissistic atheist movement hasn't been known for it's ultra-violence, promiscuity, and substance abuse?

Holiness recognizes that even the religious are weak to vice, and the religious repents. The difference with atheism is that they refuse to label vice and to repent is the ultimate of blasphemies...after all, Reconciliation puts you closer to being in Communion with God.

[He Rides A White Horse]

Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.

...and virtually all modern Christians would acknoledge the mistake.

Try getting some atheistic communist to feel bad about anything.

[He Rides A White Horse]

Most atheists arguments are diversion tactics of trying to hide sin.

Let me add if I may, SaltyJoe, that it must be easy waking up and devising whatever moral code feels good for the day.

Can't be a hypocrite under those circumstances, I suppose.

[Darkwolf377]

Nor do I think that Mr. D'Souza ducked responsibility for excesses made in the name of Christ, on the contrary, he accepted them. His point was that atheists continually excuse the excesses of their brethren.

Then how to explain the title of the article?

And where is this "continually excusing" of "atheist brethren" going on?

[Darkwolf377]

Sohlznetsin says over 100 million were killed in the Gulags alone, almost 200 million since Lenin started the whole thing including the Eastern bloc coungtries. China killed over 50 mil. Cambodia slaughtered almost 2 mil. Viet Nam only about 750 thou. Cuba, Nicaragua, Korea.....all of them slaughtered their dissidents. That's a pretty bloody century for atheist regimes don't you think? You can call that an assertion if you like.....I call it a pretty strong pattern myself. /sarcasm

Not to mention the Nazis, who are conspicuously absent from your list.

And everyone who committed those above atrocities was an atheist?

I'd love to see your hard data proving that.

[Darkwolf377]

See post 21 and respond to it also. I'm curious to hear how you do.

What's fascinating about this thread is how defensive religious folks get over this topic--you want to "hear how I do"...why? Because you know this is a BS debate, but you want to see the different rhetorical tricks batted back and forth?

It always amuses me how here on FR people are always talking about revisionist history and how people who ask for reparations should just grow up and deal with what happened in the past...but when the sins committed in the name of religion are brought up? Oh, no no no, that's all just spin, religion is GOOD and PURE no religious person ever did ANYthing wrong...

Until you dig a little deeper and find something interesting: People with that attitude really mean THEIR religion is the perfect one. If I mention, say, the sins of the past popes, and the current priests, suddenly it's "Well, I'm not a Catholic, and that's not REALLY Christianity..."

Marxism is a political philosophy which should have had its last day a long time ago but for someone to argue that there aren't plaenty of Catholic Marxists and Socialists shows a book-only knowledge of politics. Marxism is the favorite target of those trying to defend crimes committed by religious figures--"If you think THAT's bad, look at what those atheists did!"

Well, that crap won't fly while I'm here. Instead of copping to the multidude of sins done in the name of religion--something a brave, honestm and truly religious person wouldn't hesistate one second in doing--what we get in these "debates" is the usual "Not MY religion!" poses. That's all they are. Most of the people who defend this dopey article need to Google up some answers they probably never researched until the LAST time someone dared suggest that religious people were less than perfect, that it's all them atheists who done all the evil in the world's past.

Nice try, but I never once argued in defense of Marxism, and your lameass attempt to smear anyone who dares point out the facts that religions, and religious practitioners (of which there are hundreds of millions in COMMUNIST countries, though you seem blissfully unaware of that), are as vile sinners as any who have walked this earth...whoever or whatever created it.

[Religion Moderator]

Please do not use potty language in the Religion Forum.

[Darkwolf377]

P.S. Tony Blair is a Christian Socialist.

"He [Jesus] accompanied me in difficult times, in crucial moments. So Jesus Christ is no doubt a historical figure — he was someone who rebelled, an anti-imperialist guy. He confronted the Roman Empire… Because who might think that Jesus was a capitalist? No. Judas was the capitalist, for taking the coins! Christ was a revolutionary. He confronted the religious hierarchies. He confronted the economic power of the time. He preferred death in the defense of his humanistic ideals, who fostered change… He is our Jesus Christ."—Hugo Chávez

"Capitalism is the way of the devil and exploitation. If you really want to look at things through the eyes of Jesus Christ — who I think was the first socialist — only socialism can really create a genuine society."—Hugo Chávez

[hosepipe]

[ Soon we'll be hearing how Islam isn't responsible for the current rising tide of anti-western/anti-Chrisitan feeling, but atheism is behind that, too. ]

Not All- Muslims are Muslims, Christians are Christians, Jews; Jews, Buddhist's; Buddhist's, or Hindus; Hindus..

Some are indeed atheists/agnostics performing a gambit.. for a myriad of reasons..
Some are merely groupies.. D'Souza overlooks the obvious..
People lie, even to themselves..

[Darkwolf377]

My bottom line on this is that politics and religion are often used as excuses. It's individuals I blame, and who should share and accept the responsibility for their actions.