[Seven_0]

When people claim that the sacraments are means of grace, and then deny that the sacraments are in any way salvific, it is hard for me to see how they are not contradicting themselves. And if it is not in any way salvific, then *why* do it? As Flannery O'Connor once said, "Well, if it's a symbol, to hell with it."

Symbols are absolutely necessary but they have no power. The power is in the thing that is symbolized. The Old Testament sacrifices were symbols. They could not save anyone “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins”.(Heb 10:4). Perhaps hell is also a symbol.

[adiaireton8]

Hell is most definitely *not* a symbol. Hell is estrangement from God, and that's not a symbol.

Symbols *do* have power, or have you never been moved by the flag?

But the sacraments are not mere symbols; they actually effect what they symbolize.

-A8