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To: adiaireton8
A8: Where did He state it?

Would you like me to quote every single verse for every single doctrine? I would suggest that you simple read through the Westminster Confession of Faith. You should have it handy being a former PCA minister. I don't agree with quite everything they say but probably 95%.

How do you know that anyone who "recognizes that they're a sinner resting on His promises" is elected for glory?

And how do you know Saint Thomas More is in heaven and you can pray to him on lawyer affairs ? Based upon the Church telling you this is a fact? Or that Saint Joseph will help you sell your home? Based upon the testimonies of a few people who bury statues of Joseph's next to their realty signs and the house was sold in a week? With all due respect, it is rather laughable that you tell me that I can't know that I'm saved based upon the clear teaching of scripture when the Church has 5,000 saints that they say are in heaven because they say it's so. How do they know? Because Bozo the clown prayed to the Saints of Clowns that he would be funny and so he is? Because they went to their grave with, "Hail Mary full of grace." on their lips? Please.

I'm the one who is basing my faith upon text of scripture. You are the one basing your faith (although you can't define it) upon "infallible" Popes who have literally sold people souls out of purgatory only to have the Church turn around and say, "Oops, our mistake." The Catholic Church has created doctrine such as purgatory based on one little line in a dubious document and the Immaculate Conception on no scriptural evidences at all. And my doctrine can't be defended?

I'll rest my faith upon what is written in God's word which is clear on many issues. Not on some goofy 15th century "Saint" who was bored one day and decided to think up some new humanistic ideas. The early church fathers didn't seem to have a problem with placing their faith in Christ nor have a number of other people since then.

Peter called himself and others the "elect". Paul states the same thing in several places. They knew they were saved and knew who the "elect" were. Christ referred to us as the elect. In fact the term "elect" or "chosen" is referred to with believers far more than the word, "Christians". Of course you tell me Peter was just mixed up in his writing when he called them the elect and chosen of God. And this coming from your first Pope. Tsk, tsk.

The scriptures are clear if one wishes to read them. But what can one expect from the Church who doesn't accept the blood atonement of Christ. No thank you. I'll stay on this side of the fence.

425 posted on 11/21/2006 6:31:33 PM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: HarleyD
HarleyD: If left to my own devices I will fall back to my evil ways but God has told me He won’t allow that to happen.

A8: In a dream, a vision, the Bible? Where has He told you this?

HarleyD: I trust Him because He has stated it.

A8: Where did He state it?

HarleyD: Would you like me to quote every single verse for every single doctrine?

No. There is only one claim in question here, and that is how one can now know with certainty that one is elect for glory. I don't need verses for "every single doctrine". If you know of even one verse that gives one infallible knowledge *now* that one is elect for glory, I would like to see it.

-A8

431 posted on 11/21/2006 8:09:55 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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