Posted on 11/13/2006 11:01:10 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
If salvation is all of grace -- if God is God and he has chosen us for salvation even though we did nothing to deserve it -- then we ought to live by the grace we have received. Of course, some of you will look at that and say to yourselves, “Yeah, I really need to do better at living by grace. I’ve really been a failure there. I hope God will forgive me again.” If that’s you, you still don’t get it. Go back and re-read the last seventeen pages and (if you’re a believer) remember that you’re one of the elect!
Our hearts so quickly try to relate to God on a works-basis! It’s our pride, really. I’m convinced that that’s the problem with free-will Arminianism. People naturally process it like this: God requires one work from me, to believe. Once I believe, I’ve done my work and deserve heaven. Of course, in more hard-line Arminian circles, it goes a step further. Unless I’m holy enough, I’ll still go to hell, and maybe I’ve even committed the unpardonable sin and will be damned even if I’m sinlessly perfect from here on out. Legalism. Legalism. Legalism. Such a religion is barely recognizable as Christianity.
But Calvinists can fall into legalism just as easily. You see, I understand predestination. I’m a superior Christian. I’ve got all my theological “t”s crossed and my Reformed “i”s dotted. I sure am close to God. Pride is the Presbyterian’s favorite form of legalism, so watch out! But if God really is for us, and if we had nothing to do with that decision -- if even our faith was given to us by the Father -- then there’s no room for boasting. God’s sovereign choice of us leaves us free from pride. It leaves us aware of our brokenness and humble before God, but all the while confident that his eternal purpose will stand, that we will glory in God forever as objects of his saving mercy. As God’s eternal blessing really begins to sink from our heads into our hearts, we see a new freedom that we never would have imagined when we first encountered the raw, holy, sovereign power of God. Among the newfound freedoms:
1. Freedom from shame, guilt & Insecurity
Read Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love -- nothing in the past, nothing in the future. No one can stand against you. No one can accuse you. Even bad things (“all things”) are working right now to your benefit, to make you more like Jesus. God didn’t choose you because of your faith, and Jesus is not ashamed of you—even at your worst (Hebrews 2:11). He’s proud to have you in the family, proud to call you brother or sister -- even knowing what he knows. He’s displaying the glory of his mercy, remember. God’s law is no longer your enemy, but a friend. You can have confidence before God.
2. Freedom from destructive Perfectionism
If God really is for you, then you can quit trying to look good. If you’re trying to be good enough for God, he’s not buying it -- he didn’t choose you because of your great faithfulness. If you’re trying to be good enough for other people, don’t bother. God wants to display his mercy -- that means we have to be broken. God’s glory is not displayed by trying to look like you have it all together. Faith is not a work, and even if it were it still wouldn’t earn you any brownie points. Let God be God. If you won’t show your weakness, then others won’t see God’s power displayed in it.
3. Freedom from legalistic man-made rules
Some of the biggest practical opponents to living by grace are those legalistic little rules that we live by. We love to judge other with them -- they make us look good, and help us feel better about ourselves. (Pride again.) Dress this way, not that way. Wear this much makeup, not that much. Work. Don’t work. Home school is God’s way. Public school is God’s way. Christian school is God’s way. Drink. Don’t drink. Smoke. Don’t smoke. Dance. Don’t dance. This is God’s worship style. If we’re all about God’s glory, there’s no room for any of this. Do whatever you do for God’s glory without comparisons. God has freed you from judging others. You don’t understand God’ sovereign grace until you realize you are a beggar who’s been blessed without cause. You had nothing to do with it -- you’re just a receiver.
4. Freedom from Penance
Even repentance can be a sham if we’re trying to approach God with some vestige of self-reliance. Biblical repentance is a freedom we can enjoy daily, while penance is its counterfeit.
Repentance/Penance
Comes with empty hands/Tries to bargain with God
Acknowledges real sin as against God/Makes excuses for sin
Grieves over displeasing God/Grieves over getting caught
Asks for help to do better/Promises to do better
Is willing to publicly confess, if needed/Is too proud to publicly confess
Relies on God's promises to us/Relies on own promises to God
Turns outward, away from self, to God/Turns inward on self
Produces freedom, joy, and confidence/Produces guilty feelings, anxiety
God has obligated himself to receive any repentant sinner who comes to him. Without this realization, true repentance is impossible. Until we realize that God is for us, we cannot truly be for God.
To be more succient: we're either "slaves to sin" or "slaves to righteousness".
I didn't ask you any questions in 698. I answered your erroreous assumption that "free will" is taught throughout Scripture.
Can't be asked often enough.
And apparently, can't be answered even once.
Careful.
That is what Arminius taught.
OTOH, Calvin believed Paul and taught the following...
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11
Is believing in God and following Jesus Christ something "good?"
Yes, it is. However we are not elected because of anything "good or evil" we do or will do or have done.
We believe because God first elected us to salvation. We are made righteous by Christ's work, not our own, as God ordained from before the foundation of the world.
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." -- Ephesians 1:4-6"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Our faith is a gift from God in order for us to be "accepted in the beloved" Christ.
"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7
Careful? I don't understand. You are very cryptic, cornelis.
What do you think about the fact that "free will" is never mentioned in the New Testament and only in three vague passings in the Old Testament, none of which are referring to our "free will" vs. "God's will" discussion?
In the NT Jesus always is mentioning God's will, never His own and certainly no one elses. Since He is also the author of the OldT, I wonder why He changed His mind
Thank you. I only recently realized that Christ never speaks of His own will. He only speaks of God's will. And in that context, He tells us He can do no other.
"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." -- Luke 22:42
A point lost on many who think there is a "third" option.
I'm reminded of James who said that we shouldn't even go to the next city without saying, "If the Lord will's...". Now there are those who say, "That's my decision...".
Yes, and the man who insists on his own will, let's face it, he is a man against God.
Iterations. To think that "trinity" is never occurs in the New Testament or Old Testament! Now that's something to think about.
The Lord certainly saw us in Christ before creation.
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
We were elected "in Him" and "through Christ" were predestined to be adopted. Nothing could make it not happen. Nothing can make it change.
Those whom God foreknew He predestined.
Apparently you Arminians disagree over this. I thought I just read that Marlowe believes in Irresistible Grace.
Your verses, x, do not support salvation based on foreseen faith. They support election based on God's good pleasure alone.
"For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." -- Romans 11:29
Well, this is where we begin this discussion, I think. Regarding the Trinity, there are many verses which describe and explain the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Not so for "free will." I find it interesting no one can come up with a verse that supports men's vaunted "free will." Indeed, Paul tells us just the opposite...
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13
Clearly the Scriptures speak of choosing and willing, both for divine and human agency. There are countless references. The question will be, is the addition of the adjective "free" unscriptural? To answer that we would have to understand what is meant by "free."
There is, however, lots of Scripture denying "free will."
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Philippians 2:13
Sure it was, it was God's word FOR us.
Are you saying that Paul's response was a different answer than God's?
I'm saying that Paul's answer may be different from God's because Paul lacks perfect information. For example, when I asked you what the point of giving prevenient grace to the non-elect was, given that God already knew the result, you indicated it was an irrelevant question. That's because you have no idea, you don't know. Were God to answer the same question, He could either affirm or deny the existence of prevenient grace, and then explain it in full, if needed. Those are very different answers.
Isn't it true that the correct Calvinist answer is "Nothing. You can't do anything to be saved!" If so, then, if Paul was the Calvinist that all the GRPL seems to say he was, then why didn't Paul answer: "Nothing. There's nothing you can do to be saved!"?
The fact of the matter is that the scriptures confirm that anyone can be saved and what a person must do to be saved is to believe on Jesus Christ.
I don't know why anyone would deny that fact or discourage that answer.
Oh, definitely without. I had to institute a full weapons check at the door. Several of them even wanted to drag in their harps, but I knew that would turn into a garrote-fest if things turned ugly. It's a good thing I happened to have handy a few harp racks for just such an emergency. Overall, I could tell which ones to watch out for, because they hadn't earned their wings yet.
I also believe in irresistible prevenient grace.
Folks resist at the point of saving grace.
Lot's wife looking back at Sodom.....Jesus' parable of the sower....the cares and riches of this life.
And looking on him Jesus loved him....go sell all that you have and give it to the poor. But the man went away sorrowing because he had great wealth.
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