[NYer]

Catholic & Orthodox ping!

[visualops]

not quite in tune with modern unwritten rules of political correctness.

lol

[Kolokotronis]

"With respect to the Pope of Rome, "Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church" is a designation that points to the Pope's universal jurisdiction -- a level of authority which is not recognized by the Orthodox Churches. It is precisely this title that should have been dropped first, had the move been motivated by the quest for "ecumenical progress" and desire for the amelioration of Catholic-Orthodox relations."

And therein, as we all, even our hierarchs, know, lies the rub.

[kosta50]

I agree with Bishop Alefeyev on everything except his objection to the Pope dropping the title "Patriarch of the Occident [West]" because there is no such thing as (the equivalent of) the "Patriarch of the Orient [East]."

All other +Aleyev's objections otherwise correctly focus on those titles that have no equivalent and that serve, therefore, to set the Pope apart from other Bishops in power and not in seniority of honor and respect.

I also strongly agree with +Alefeyev's observation that the Vatican needs to build equal and productive bridges with all Orthodox Churches and their Patriarchs, Matropolitans and Archibshops, and not just with the Ecumenical Patriarch.

[Alex Murphy]

The Orthodox Church has no single primate. It consists of 15 autocephalous churches, each headed by its own patriarch, archbishop or metropolitan.

In this family of Churches the patriarch of Constantinople is "primus inter pares," but his primacy is that of honor, not of jurisdiction, since he has no ecclesial authority over the other Churches. When, therefore, he is presented as the "head" of the Orthodox Church worldwide, it is misleading. It is equally misleading when his meeting with the Pope of Rome is considered to be a meeting of the heads of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Historically, until the schism of 1054, it was the Bishop of Rome who enjoyed a position of primacy among the heads of the Christian Churches. The canons of the Eastern Church -- in particular, the famous 28th canon of the Council of Chalcedon -- ascribe the second, not the first place, to the patriarch of Constantinople. ...

...The main obstacle to ecclesial unity between East and West, according to many Orthodox theologians, is the teaching on the universal jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome. Within this context -- unacceptable and even scandalous, from the Orthodox point of view -- are precisely those titles that remain in the list, such as Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church.

According to Orthodox teaching, Christ has no "vicar" to govern the universal Church in his name.

Ping to read later