Posted on 11/04/2006 1:40:19 PM PST by Salvation
It's simple, but stimulates profound thought about what's really valuable, at least for me. Reminiscent, of course, of "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be."
Be glad that the powers that be did not give our brains a stir with a fork while they were handing out this and that.
It could be very much worse.
"St. Paul was uncannily ambitious."
True. Missionaries (the best of them) have voracious ambition, channeled and turned in the right direction. It's like wanting to achieve a world's record for enriching other people.
That seems more like covetousness, to me.
But still, envy results in your hating and wishing to harm another person.
Exactly.
There's something eery about a society where every social exchange is weighed in terms of advantage.
I thought that covetousness and envy were pretty much the same emotion/thinking.
Was I wrong?
I'm not all that smart but I have a pretty good grasp on the American version of the English language.
My bet is that envy kills ambition.
I think you bet rightly.
Greed, envy, covetousness, jealousy are often used interchangeably in common speech, and that's not really a problem. However, in the details of theology, there are distinctions, which I'm probably not making clearly because I'm not fully clear on them, myself. (I could get a catechism out, but there's something funny going on in the next room, and I'm going to have to intervene momentarily ...)
Anyway, between covetousness and envy, covetousness is about wanting a particular item someone else has, while envy is about your intentions toward the person. When we're talking about a tractor, it may not be all that sharp a line, but consider being envious of another person's business success, or of his influence in the community, or of his good looks.
You can't "covet" those qualities, because they're not transferrable to you in the way a car or (ahem) wife might be. If you dislike him and wish him harm because of advantages you perceive he has, then that is "envy."
What would you say is the most typical form of envy in our society?
Good point.
Out of charity, I'd rephrase your second sentence, "Such a person is to be feared, pitied, and, if possible, converted or otherwise neutralized."
This thread has been an education for me.
I now feel a lot better about my little slice of life and my abilities, as humble as they are.
I will now sign off and have a beer.
Did I mention beer? Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin
You're bringing up great questions!
That's wonderful! Do enjoy your beer, or two! I don't covet your beer, because I don't like beer, and I don't envy your enjoyment of it, because I have a bottle of cheap Australian red wine in the pantry :-).
I kind of wish I still lived in Texas, though!
There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve ones station and situation in life through honest labor and the free exchange of goods or services. That's the height of virtue if you ask me.
Not to sound like Gordon Gecko, but selfishness is actually a virtue. After all, one can not help any one before one has helped oneself.
But you are correct. In my opinion it's beyond eerie and is in fact downright frightening.
At this rate it won't be long before the looters completely take over society and begin the pillaging in earnest. We're walking a knife edge right now, and I don't think that's an exaggeration or hyperbole.
We're just one or two acts of "congress" away from outright institutionalized thievery being the law of the land. Some would argue, largely correctly in my view, that we are already there.
It used to be a joke to say that "no mans money or property is safe while the Legislature is in session." Well there are a lot fewer people laughing at that now. That's largely because it's true and is distinctly un-funny.
We're just one or two steps away from outright mob rule if you ask me and that's damned frightening. I'm getting way too old for this sh**, but I sure as he** don't want to leave the mess for my kid to clean up.
L
LOL! If you had seashells, you'd have to dust them, and the same with most of the other "stuff" in the world. That's Don Aslett's point - he's "America's Number 1 Cleaning Specialist," as well as being a Christian pastor of some sort.
Speaking of things that can love you back, a little person just crawled up, whining, "Mama, mama!"
See you!
Another way that ambition may be renewed from envy, but in a Goldy way might be if one goes to God and works closely with Him and with His Word, they may learn that there is something in them that is desirous in this area and they can work with God in prayer and in his leading to learn how that should be handled.
For instance, what if one has pursued a direction in their life out of fear, as opposed to a direction that God all along intended for them. One day this person realizes they are always envious of this certain type of person that has a certain type of profession. They share this with a fellow spiritual friend and the friend asks, what is it about this specific type of person with this specific type of profession? and the person answers, "I've always wanted to be this sort of person in this exact profession."
Well maybe there is a leading here that has been denied. Maybe it is serving God in another capacity that has been denied by this person out of fear and thus the rise of envy. This is a situation where I can see it possibly renewing ambition in a Godly way, but not without personal spiritual exploration.
I would say covetousness. Eveyone hates the rich, except the rich and they just hate the richer. Simple math. The second is youth. Everyone except the young envy the young. If not in their lifestyle, their looks or bodies or health. JMHO. Et Tu?
You have more hope than I do regarding converting such people. I've never seen it happen.
But the scales fell from Pauls eyes (was it Paul?) so I guess anything is possible.
On the other hand, Paul had the benefit of dealing with Jesus himself. Sadly, Jesus isn't around today. If he were I'm afraid things would go largely as they did 2,000 years ago.
L
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