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To: Lord_Calvinus; P-Marlowe

There is no fraud here. To suggest it is an insult to me.

These are the words of Luther. They are not mine. I am simply posting what Luther wrote.

Sheeesh......


14 posted on 11/02/2006 8:26:05 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
These are the words of Luther. They are not mine. I am simply posting what Luther wrote.

Thank you. A very interesting post.

15 posted on 11/02/2006 8:29:21 AM PST by scripter ("If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18)
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To: xzins; Lord_Calvinus; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Gamecock; alpha-8-25-02; OrthodoxPresbyterian; ...
xzins, last time you tried to tell us Luther believed in free will. Yet you couldn't substantiate that with anything Luther had written.

This time you're discussing Predestination. Scripture tells us, not Calvin or Luther (although they both understood this and affirmed it) not to inquire as to WHY God predestines, but that we are to rest assured that He DOES predestine, based on His good pleasure alone.

Do you get the distinction?

The security of Predestination lies in our election. Luther never wavered in his staunch support of election by the will of God and not by some foreseen faith in men who have the good sense to believe. "Read Bondage of the Will."

This excerpt from Luther is just more tossing into the air someone's words and declaring, "See, this is what he's REALLY saying." But do you even read the stuff you post?

"It is profitable and necessary above all that the knowledge of God be completely certain in us and that we cling to it with firm assent of the heart. Otherwise our faith is useless. For if God does not stand by His promises, then our salvation is lost, while, on the other hand, this is our comfort, that, although we change, we nevertheless flee for refuge to Him who is unchangeable. For in Mal. 3:6 He makes this assertion about Himself: "I the Lord do not change." And Rom. 11:29 states: "The gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

God does not change. What He has purposed from before the foundation of the world will occur, not because of our wills, but because of His will. God is unchangeable. Our only comfort is in what He has promised to do -- give us faith in Jesus Christ and bring us home.

Luther ran the long race during his lifetime. He was a monk. God untangled him from incredible error and brought him forward into His grace. Calvin was a lawyer. He benefited from the race Luther had run. He took our understanding of Scripture deeper, farther, for God's glory. So I'm a Presbyterian, not a Lutheran.

If Luther or Calvin were alive today to see how men still attempt to twist their words, they'd be saddened indeed.

19 posted on 11/02/2006 10:17:02 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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