Posted on 10/30/2006 8:56:41 AM PST by Rightly Biased
Southwestern Seminary’s theology dean, David Allen, doesn’t expect any surprises from faculty when he sends them a memo soon about a new trustee statement regarding the neo-charismatic practice of private prayer language.
Prospective faculty members have been quizzed on the subject for years, Allen said.
If a current faculty member practices “a private prayer language” as one trustee alleges five of them do, then the pertinent question becomes whether that view is advocated in the classroom.
“I would not bring that professor in and say, ‘You cannot say that outside of class.’ I’m not going to restrict anyone in that way.”
“The statement said we will not knowingly endorse private prayer language,” Allen explained, taking that to mean advocating that practice.
The newly passed statement reads: “As it concerns private practices of devotion, these practices, if genuinely private, remain unknown to the general public and are, therefore, beyond the purview of Southwestern Seminary. Southwestern will not knowingly endorse in any way, advertise, or commend the conclusions of the contemporary charismatic movement including ‘private prayer language.’ Neither will Southwestern knowingly employ professors or administrators who promote such practices.”
Allen draws a distinction between the statement by which a seminary operates and the freedom of an individual pastor.
“A pastor at a local church is not an entity of the Southern Baptist Convention. They are by definition autonomous, as is their pastor. However, a seminary is a different animal,” he said, because of the responsibility it has to its churches through elected trustees.
Prior to his election to the faculty and administration, Allen served as a trustee throughout the previous seminary president’s administration and takes issue with McKissic’s characterization that the newly passed statement represents a theological and philosophical shift that will exclude many practitioners of tongues.
“During the entire Hemphill time, as a board member, if a person articulated to me that they had charismatic leanings and inclusive of that was a private prayer language, it would be very unlikely I would have been supportive of faculty status.”
But a faculty member who privately discloses a sympathetic view toward the practice of a private prayer language won’t be hauled into the dean’s office.
“I would not bring that professor in and say you cannot say that outside of class. It’s not going to restrict in that way. If we have people who do that here we’re certainly not going to try to move for their dismissal,” Allen said.
Nor should the statement pose a problem for any of the students, he added.
“We have lots of students who aren’t Southern Baptists and some are charismatic. We do not expect our students to affirm the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. Under no conditions would any such student be unwelcome here,” Allen stated.
“On the other side of the coin, we can be careful in whom we do hire. We will not hire anyone knowingly who affirms that which the vast majority of Southern Baptists disavow.”
“As long as it remains private, it’s not problematic to me because I don’t know,” agreed Southwestern Seminary President Paige Patterson. “If it does become known to some people, but is not a matter that is advocated or advertised and the reputation of the school is not harmed thereby, then it’s not a problem.”
While the focus of the statement was placed on the hiring process, Patterson said he questions whether there’s even one professor who advocates the practice of a private prayer language.
Patterson disputes McKissic’s claim the school has abandoned its commitment to the inerrant Word of God by banning a practice the apostle Paul said should not be forbidden. He called their difference a disagreement with McKissic’s interpretation, not a denial of God’s Word.
“We don’t forbid tongues. We said what we are going to do in the seminary as a direction. He is confusing our disagreement with him as a disagreement with inerrancy.”
Patterson said a variety of interpretations are held by Southwestern professors, including cessationists like Vice President Craig Blaising and those who would view some legitimacy to what was happening at Corinth while regarding it as “implicitly dangerous.”
“I have never been a cessationist. I don’t believe the sign gifts ceased with the coming of the New Testament. I do not think that the scriptural grounds for arguing that are persuasive, but I do believe that if it is an actual case of the gift of tongues, that it will be the experience of Acts 2 where people speak languages they have never formally studied in order to present the gospel.”
Preaching from 1 Corinthians 14 in a chapel sermon last April, Patterson stated that “Acts 2 portrays the legitimate gifts of tongues” for gospel proclamation and that the Corinthian believers were merely imitating the Acts 2 manifestation in a manner similar to pagan prophets of the time.
Nevertheless, “It would be a mistake for evangelicals to forbid others to speak in tongues ... That doesn’t mean that a person who is building a major part of his faith on something that is so ... downplayed by Paul should be called to be your pastor,” Patterson said.
He said 1 Corinthians 14 seems to give evidence of a private prayer language, but notes that Paul says such prayer leaves the mind out of prayer so that praying with the mind is preferred. Furthermore, Patterson said, it is not synonymous with the groanings mentioned in Romans 8:26—a statement that contradicts one of McKissic’s examples of private prayer language.
While Patterson said he does not believe there is “a lot of necessity” for that type of situation anymore, nevertheless, “God is God and it could happen, but if it happens, I believe it will be [an Acts 2 manifestation],” he said, referring to speaking known languages previously unknown to the speaker and made available to preach the gospel.
I'm curious when you say this. What purpose DO they serve. When someone is set free, delivered, healed, or even receives the miracle of salvation, what purpose does that serve? .. if not the same purpose it served during the 1st century.
Or are you stating that you don't believe miraculous gifts don't exsist anymore?
Because it lessons the Bible as a closed canon and will result in chaos.
The gift of salvation absolutely exists. The miraculous gifts I am speaking of, including speaking in tongues, prophecy, and miraculous healing, however, do not exist in the church today.
That's sort of like the math exercise where 2 + 2 ends up equalling 5.
Yes, Holy Spirit points to Jesus.
What Scripture declares that Jesus is the "end" of revelation? What would be the plausible meanings of such a verse?
Certainly Jesus and The Cross are the fulcrum of all we know and construe as reality.
Nothing about Holy Spirit operating in the NOW detracts from that; hinders that; alters that a microgram's worth.
To imagine that the New Testament details ALLLLLLLLL the revelation that JESUS IS, reduces Jesus to a finite entity. HOGWASH. Doesn't work. Won't fit. Scripture itself makes that clear--that Scripture is just a kind of detailed snapshot of the essentials of all Jesus is.
ONE reason Holy Spirit is to lead each believer into all truth is that Scripture is the foundation, the guidelines, the beginning . . . each believer is expected to GROW FORWARD, UPWARDS, ONWARDS, FROM THAT FOUNDATION. Not altering it. Not going contrary to it . . . but in a real sense . . . unfolding, expanding, beyond it in the same sense that Jesus wholeness is beyond the finite descriptions in the ink on pages.
I could probably pontificate further but I should get back to pottery.
Because it lessons the Bible as a closed canon and will result in chaos.
= = = =
Hogwash.
Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion . . . satan is.
Holy Spirit is into decency and in order. Now, HIS ORDER can appear chaotic at times. But that's a different issue.
He's merely much more creative, varied, expansive than lots of people can easily wrap their minds and biases around.
NOTE TO BELIEVERS: BUCKLE YOUR SEAT BELTS. You ain't seen nothing yet. Christ Himself said GREATER THINGS SHALL YOU DO. And, Holy Spirit has hardly even begun to commence to start getting wound up for THAT grand finale.
The criteria is not anything about a closed Canon. The criteria Christ gave is does the source, channel assert that Christ came in the flesh etc. THAT'S BIBLICAL.
Does the phenomenon/a bring glory to Christ and further HIS KINGDOM.
THAT'S BIBLICAL
THAT'S DECENT AND IN ORDER REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF FOLKS LYING ON THE FLOOR.
But, hey, if folks are silly enough to seek to withstand what God is doing . . . not my tail feathers looking to get singed.
Not my pride seeking to get humiliated.
But humiliation in thick layers and great intensity and vividness is in store for any and all who will dare to withstand God in the coming months and years--ESPECIALLY THOSE CALLED BY HIS NAME.
End of notice.
That assertion is 100% false, wrong, untrue, unBiblical.
1 Corinthians 13:10
Well, you don't BELIEVE they exist in the church today. *smile* My daughter didn't BELIEVE that caterpillars turned into butterflies either .. until she experienced the joy of watching it happen.
I can't change your mind, only the Holy Spirit can. I'm married to a man who believed just at you do, until he received a healing/deliverance and then began to repent for his lack of belief and pray only for God's all and God's best for him. He is now a man who BOLDLY talks about the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit in his day to day life.
I've personally received a physical healing, that also completed a prophecy over my life. I'm currently praying about sharing that with you. I'm not sure it's appropriate for open forum, however, the Holy Spirit might just ask me to do that, in which case, I won't hesitate.
do not exist in the church today.
= = =
I'm not remotely lying in the slightest about the miracles in my life . . . such as the rain on 4 sides of the drying hay but not on the hay . . . Such things brought my step-father to Saving knowledge of Jesus The Christ.
Throw rocks at will. But it's not recommended against what Holy Spirit does. Father is not impressed nor pleased with such.
BTW, guess what . . . FATHER'S OPINION MATTERS
A LOT.
The whole book of Revelation
Re 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is , and which was , and which is to come , the Almighty.
Re 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Re 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Re 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Further consider this:
Jesus said : The Law and the prophets were until John (Luke 16:16)
I have nothing against the Holy Spirit, and I have said nothing against Him.
Aren't straw dogs cute.
And stupid.
If knowledge is past, how can one know anything about wheteher The Perfect has come or not come? If knowledge has not passed, neither has tongues.
It's clear to most folks with an open mind and a microgram's worth of Holy Spirit discernment
that
THE PERFECT ONE IS JESUS THE CHRIST . . . AND THE POINT WHEN ALL SUCH NO LONGER NEEDED STUFF IS DONE AWAY WITH IS WHEN HE RETURNS AND SETS UP HIS KINGDOM.
Doesn't seem like rocket science, to me!
Is language still taught in schools? I thought it was.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
And, true about Holy Spirit having to be the one enlightening folks.
However, He's such a gentleman, He tends to wait for their earnestly seeking it.
Then He tends to wait until their will is more molded to His.
Eventually, the enlightenment tends to come.
But the process CAN be a lengthy one.
Uhhhhhh, hello?
Has all of Revelation come to pass yet????
I chose my words very carefully . . . against
HOLY SPIRIT'S
DOINGS.
I believe that also, quix. It is abundantly clear that Satan believes it also, because you can't deny the magnitude of evil operating in the world. he (satan) is hard at work, huh?
Normal knowledge is not what is being discussed in that passage of Scripture. It is referring to supernatural knowledge. It makes not sense that Paul would be talking about a group of supernatural things, and just throw in normal knowledge.
Also, the better rendering of the word that is usually translated perfect is complete. That is being contrasted with what was "in part". This is not talking about Christ, but rather is talking about the revelation of God, which is His Word.
I'm willing to listen to your argument but you will have to post scripture that supports ongoing revelation. Jesus Himself appealed to scripture whenever He was asked hard questions. The servant. as we well know, is not above his master. So, your own personal words and feelings are not authoritative, sorry.
I believe that also, quix. It is abundantly clear that Satan believes it also, because you can't deny the magnitude of evil operating in the world. he (satan) is hard at work, huh?
= = = =
YEAH! That issue has always flabbergasted me.
For folks to construe that Holy Spirit went fishing when John ran out of ink at the end of Revelation . . .
they'd have to construe God to be an absolutely stupid General to leave The New Church running around loose amidst all the satanic supernatural powers without Holy Spirit to counter them?
No Way.
God is a long way from that dumb!
Uhhhhhh when did the COMPLETENESS OF CHRIST SETTING UP HIS KINGDOM ON EARTH ETC.
happen.
I think I missed that memo.
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