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To: annalex
Right, but ours comes from 2000 of tradition and research by people who dedicated their lives to it, who trace their consecration to the apostles, and who were promised the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Yours comes from men who have dedicated their lives to upholding the primacy of the Catholic church, men who are corruptible and dedicated to a preconditioned idea of what scripture needs to say, much separated from the actual events, and, of guidance of the Holy Ghost, there is no evidence but self proclamation and witness of those whose interests coincide.

Sorry. There is too much missed stitches in the seam. I don't trust it.

It also has authority and structure described in the gospels.

The Gospels authorizes churches as I described, which description must hold up when each individual can dive within to the kingdom and reach God through Christ, to have all their material and spiritual needs met by His grace and promises. All we need do is love Him, and to love Him, He says to obey His commandments. To be saved, believe and have faith.

If everyone has a car, what use are taxis, but for only times one's car breaks down? I agree the Catholic church has the authority to humbly serve those moving to God and to maintain a support group, which is, scripturally, what the many churches did.

You can bump into a judge on your trip to the market and get in an argument over parking space. He will have no more authority than you in that argument. However, he will have authority over you in court. That would be the power of his office, even though his office has no life or soul or independent existence. Court has authority. So does the Church.

The authority of man and his government esteems one above another and is a respecter of persons, which is the foundation of the flow of authority you describe. God is neither. Such a condition would have to exist to give a body the authority you describe.

One person, like the Pope or the judge, must exercise that authority for the entity and its members, which exalts him about all others, and the lesser exalted persons, like bishops so on down, above all others.

How can one be exalted above all others when each single individual has the total and complete access to God and all His blessing, material and spiritual, access to His rest and after death, His presence? In other words, every possible attainment any soul on Earth can expect to reach?

Your analogy would be accurate if you added the ability of each, who might come before the court, to immediately access the highest court available before appearance.

764 posted on 11/06/2006 6:21:23 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
I don't trust it.

So you have the issue of trust, not the Church. But the Church has no secrets form you. You have the scripture, and you have the patristic view on them. If you think you know Greek and the antiquity better, show me. So far, no one was able to prove his reading of the scripture in the historical and the linguistic context to be superior to the reading of the Church. And you paranoiah has no foundation.. The Orthodox Church has every interest to rpove the Pope and the Catholics wrong. They have not: on virtually everything (excepting some fine points of the papacy doctrine) the two apostolic Churches read the scripture identically, and condemn Luther's reading.

Gospels authorizes churches as I described

You "described" That is not good enough. The scripture is in front of you (for most part). Show me "churches". I showed you The Church, in the words of Christ and of St. Paul, and I explained why: Christ has one body, not 22,000 bodies.

r analogy would be accurate if you added the ability of each, who might come before the court, to immediately access the highest court available

My analogy was there merely to explain that bodies of authority exist in real life and the Church is one of them. A court is another. Incidentally, the jurisdiction doe go from local to highest in the Church also.

770 posted on 11/06/2006 8:59:49 PM PST by annalex
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