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To: annalex
Is there anything in there [Chapter XXVI of Justin Martyr's First Apology] that might be construed as evidence of a 25 year Roman Bishopric for Simon Magus?

CHAPTER XXVI -- MAGICIANS NOT TRUSTED BY CHRISTIANS

And, thirdly, because after Christ's ascension into heaven the devils put forward certain men who said that they themselves were gods; and they were not only not persecuted by you, but even deemed worthy of honours. There was a Samaritan, Simon, a native of the village called Gitto, who in the reign of Claudius Caesar, and in your royal city of Rome, did mighty acts of magic, by virtue of the art of the devils operating in him. He was considered a god, and as a god was honoured by you with a statue, which statue was erected on the river Tiber, between the two bridges, and bore this inscription, in the language of Rome:-- "Simoni Deo Sancto," "To Simon the holy God." And almost all the Samaritans, and a few even of other nations, worship him, and acknowledge him as the first god; and a woman, Helena, who went about with him at that time, and had formerly been a prostitute, they say is the first idea generated by him. And a man, Meander, also a Samaritan, of the town Capparetaea, a disciple of Simon, and inspired by devils, we know to have deceived many while he was in Antioch by his magical art. He persuaded those who adhered to him that they should never die, and even now there are some living who hold this opinion of his. And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of the devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take their opinions from these men, are, as we before said, called Christians; just as also those who do not agree with the philosophers in their doctrines, have yet in common with them the name of philosophers given to them. And whether they perpetrate those fabulous and shameful deeds--the upsetting of the lamp, and promiscuous intercourse, and eating human flesh--we know not; but we do know that they are neither persecuted nor put to death by you, at least on account of their opinions. But I have a treatise against all the heresies that have existed already composed, which, if you wish to read it, I will give you.

I see nothing different from the Acts and the Acts of Peter and Paul: a magician becoming popular among pagans, possibly mocking Christian beliefs. Marcion is also mentioned here, curiously.

Look again more carefully at the parts that I highlighted:

1]When does he say that Simon the Magician came to Rome? Was it not during the reign of Claudius. Could it have been in 42 AD?

2]And what were Simon the Magician's followers called there in Rome?

3] Is there anything else here that sheds light on our pursuit of genuine truth regarding just exactly who had that legendary 25 year Bishopric in Rome?

435 posted on 11/01/2006 2:14:32 PM PST by Uncle Chip (They see it and they hear it, but they cannot understand it)
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To: Uncle Chip

Claudius was an emperor for 13 years. The evidence of St Peter disputing with Magus is in the Acts, both canonical and apocryphal. This doesn't make him the same person: it is kind of difficult to have a public disputation with oneself. In fact, it proves Peter being a different person, meeting Magus in the same time frame as Peter is beleived to be in Rome.

Apostle Peter was not a Samaritan.

Marcionites were indeed Christian heretics. It is possible that somehow the followers of Magus were mixed up with them, even more so that the teachings of Magus look like a mockery of the Christian beliefs.

I think, however, that we have solid evidence that you and Jack Chick are the same person.


439 posted on 11/01/2006 2:29:17 PM PST by annalex
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