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To: FormerLib
the difference between a idol that is worship and an icon which is venerated

Can you explain the difference? It's not clear to all of us non-Orthodox. To quote Wikipedia: "In some other religious traditions such as Judaism, Islam and Protestantism, veneration is considered to amount to the heresy of idolatry"

20 posted on 10/28/2006 5:28:06 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com†|Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: sionnsar; FormerLib; AnalogReigns; Honorary Serb; lightman

Knowledge of The Faith, as taught by The Fathers and as expressed by the Ecumenical Councils allows one to determine if one really is a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Iconoclasm is an ancient heresy which was in some senses a result of Monophysitism in that it rejects the body. In other ways it was a result of Mohammedanism. It was pretty well stamped out among Christians until perhaps a generation after Luther when it bagan to gain ground in the West, though not in the East. Interestingly, some Mohammedan sects, especially in the area of Syria/Jordan/Palestine, have a great devotion to icons of the Theotokos. Perhaps these quotes from the proclamations of the 7th Ecumenical Council, which I always thought Anglicanism accepted, though now I begin to wonder, will help.

"We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor (timitiki proskynisis), but not of real worship (latreia), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands."

And from the Synodikon of the 7th Ecumenical Council, which we all read in unison on the Great Feast of the Triumph of Orthodoxy:

As the Prophets beheld,
As the Apostles taught,
As the Church received,
As the Teachers dogmatized,
As the Universe agreed,
As Grace illumined,
As the Truth revealed,
As falsehood passed away,
As Wisdom presented,
As Christ awarded,



Thus we declare,
Thus we assert,
Thus we proclaim Christ our true God
and honor His saints,



In words,
In writings,
In thoughts,
In sacrifices,
In churches,
In holy icons.



On the one hand, worshipping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord.
And on the other hand, honoring and venerating His Saints as true servants of the same Lord.



This is the Faith of the Apostles.
This is the Faith of the Fathers.
This is the Faith of the Orthodox.
This is the Faith which has established the Universe.


22 posted on 10/28/2006 5:58:24 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: sionnsar

Veneration is something that shows reverence, like some might show for the American Flag or the Holy Bible.

Worship is reserved for God alone.

A pagan might worship an idol, believing it to be holy in and of itself. An Orthodox Christian would never worship an icon although they would show it reverence which would actually be directed to the person it represented and not the object itself.


26 posted on 10/28/2006 6:39:55 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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