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What Does the Prayer Really Say ^ | October 25, 2006 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

[trisham]

The prayer included in this article reminds me a bit of this one:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell; on the third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost,
The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the body, and life everlasting .

Amen.

[NYer]

My mother Siobhan sends you all greetings.

A big {{{{{{{{ HUG }}}}}}}} to your mother!! Please let her know that she is missed.

[Jaded]

A small step up is better than a step back into the abyss.

[nanetteclaret]

"Bless thine inheritance" I believe is a line from one of the 15th-16th century English anthems on "Faire is the Heaven." Don't remember which one. I don't have CD handy, but will check on it later.

[Notwithstanding]

So these are the possibilites:

1. Latin indult.
2. Latin indult requiring bishops who deny permission to justify that denial to Rome in writing.
3. Prohibition of cleansing altar vessels by the non-ordained.

Anything else?

[bert]

Is he going to be off the hook? Are the charges being dropped?

[AnAmericanMother]

I've got that CD too, and my former choirmaster was a big Rutter fan, so I've sung almost everything on that album.

That could well be how that phrase got into my head, although I don't recall right offhand an anthem in which it is used . . . of course, we crossed the Tiber in late 2003/early 2004, so it's been awhile now!

[Claud]

A group of 35 French bishops and priests have issued a statement urging Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) not to issue the motu proprio that has been widely discussed in recent weeks. The clerics predict that by allowing broader use of the Tridentine rite, the papal document would "plunge us back into the liturgical life of another age."

Uhhh...correct me if I am wrong, but weren't practically all the innovations of the NO defended as ancient liturgical practices that the bad ol' medieval Church got rid of?

The adoption of a policy allowing free use of either the Tridentine liturgy or the post-conciliar Novus Ordo, Infocatho said, would divide the Church, because "Eucharistic bi-ritualism in the Latin Catholic Church contradicts what the Eucharist signifies."

Stuff and nonsense! What are the four Eucharistic Prayers then? Why does the East have different liturgies for different feasts? (Chrystostom, Basil, James, etc.)

[Campion]

Is he going to be off the hook? Are the charges being dropped?

Yes, he'll probably be out of prison before you are.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Bless thine inheritance" is from (depending on your translation) Psalm 28:9, and also from the Troparion of the Holy Cross in the Orthodox Church:

O Lord,
save Thy people
and bless Thine inheritance,
grant victory to Orthodox Christians
over their adversaries
and by Thy cross
preserve Thy people.

[Romulus]

Hello, Maeve. Please give my best to your mother. I've spent a little time in Rome myself this year.

[AnAmericanMother]

Found it!

I knew it was firmly engrained in my memory banks . . . it's from the old 1928 BCP Evening Prayer service, the responsory before the Collects . . .

Minister. The Lord be with you.
Answer. And with thy spirit.
Minister. Let us pray.

¶ Here, if it hath not already been said, shall follow the Lord's Prayer.

Minister. O Lord, show thy mercy upon us.
Answer. And grant us thy salvation.
Minister. O Lord, save the State.
Answer. And mercifully hear us when we call upon thee.
Minister. Endue thy Ministers with righteousness.
Answer. And make thy chosen people joyful.
Minister. O Lord, save thy people.
Answer. And bless thine inheritance.
Minister. Give peace in our time, O Lord.
Answer. For it is thou, Lord, only, that makest us dwell in safety.
Minister. O God, make clean our hearts within us.
Answer. And take not thy Holy Spirit from us.

¶ Then shall be said the Collect for the Day, and after that the Collects and Prayers following.

THAT explains why I couldn't identify it immediately. I attended Morning Prayer (Matins) every Sunday until they revised the prayerbook to make Communion every Sunday, and often twice a Sunday because my parents sang two services. Until the mid-70s, Episcopalians only took communion once a month. If you get me started with the Preface to Morning Prayer ("The Lord is in His holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before Him") I can run the whole service from memory.

Evening Prayer (Compline) I attended much less frequently . . . so I couldn't identify the quotation, but it was still rattling around in there.

The version of Ps 28 that uses that language is in the KJV . . . the Episcopal prayerbook has always used Cranmer's translation of the Psalter rather than the KJV Book of Psalms.

[BlackElk]

There is less confusion if the Tridentine Mass is referenced as such rather than as the Latin Mass since the Novus Ordo may also be said in Latin.

Of course, no one died and left these dissenting French bishops (or Curial officials of similar rebellious nature) in charge of bossing the Holy Father around either. They can comply with his decisions or get out. Not one of them became a bishop without taking a priestly vow of obedience. Excommunicate any who refuse to submit to and obey Christ's Vicar on Earth.

Some of the bad French bishops have such appropriate names: Le Gall, Lacrampe!!! Archbishop Vingt-Trois of Paris and Bishop Pansard of Chartres seem to be especially nervy items as well.

Without further info, Bishop Dagens may have promise.

My next rosary is for the intentions of the Holy Father (whom this very moment was described by Protestant Rush Limbaugh as "the Vicar of Christ") and that we all have the good grace to accept his judgments. If his judgments may differ from my private opinions, I particularly pray for the grace to accept his judgments cheerfully and enthusiastically as gifts from God Whom Benedict XVI serves.

God bless you and yours.

[AnAmericanMother]

Wow, in what context was Rush referring to His Holiness?

( . . . good for him, though. BTW, I didn't know he was protestant, I didn't know he was a member of any church.)

[Mrs. Don-o]

"If [the Pope's] judgments may differ from my private opinions, I particularly pray for the grace to accept his judgments cheerfully and enthusiastically as gifts from God Whom Benedict XVI serves."

I will make that prayer my own.

[sittnick]

A caller compared Michael J. Fox and John Paul II's reaction to Parkinsons. She pointed out that the media made a victim soul out of Fox and mocked the Pope, calling him a moron, etc. she finished up by saying that this is really about abortion.

Rush agreed, and recalled the media asking why the pope didn't step down. I believe that when Rush said "Vicar of Christ", he actually put quote marks around it as he was suggesting what the lib elite types were describing. (e.g. "That man is the Vicar of Christ, he can't represent the Gospel quaking like that.") Both agreed that John Paul II allowed his weakness to go on display, not as a show, but to let people know that suffering isn't evil. And bearing it patiently is good. That was the understanding I got while driving and hearing Rush. I don't believe he actually said "The Pope is the Vicar of Christ" in his own voice. He is deeply respectful of the Holy Father, however.

[sittnick]

I didn't know he was protestant, I didn't know he was a member of any church.

For generic protestants, the going to church part can be optional. You know, personal interpretation, personal relationship with the Lord, Sola Scriptura and all that.

[nanetteclaret]

Our broadcast of Rush is delayed here, but I believe it was in the segment which was broadcast just now - a caller was making the point that the media was very unsympathetic when the Holy Father spoke in public and his Parkinson's was so obvious - and that this whole stem cell flap is just all about abortion. I didn't hear the whole thing, but Rush said (paraphrasing) that the Holy Father believed that his suffering was for a purpose, that he showed courage in his suffering, and that he was the leader of his flock, which grew while he was its leader, and the media couldn't stand it. (I was unloading the dishwasher and not paying full attention. Sorry ...)

[sittnick]

The clerics predict that by allowing broader use of the Tridentine rite, the papal document would "plunge us back into the liturgical life of another age."

Of course, going with the Novus Ordo kind of keeps us locked into 1970.

The Traditional Mass doesn't recall another age, but rather an epoch spanning well over a thousand years (the modifications made by Pope St. Pius V were minor compared to the variations even between various Novus Ordos).

Regarding the French Revolution. Gallicanism infected not only Napoleon but also the Post-Napoleonic royals. Read Robin Anderson's Pope Pius VII (TAN Books) for a lively account of the era.

[AnAmericanMother]

Thanks! I'd already missed it here.